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Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

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Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#101

Post by Jaruzel »

hawkice wrote: post #47
baldfat wrote: post #44

Trick: Boost your adrenaline by doing exercise before drinking down the caffeine. I learned that caffeine makes adrenaline last longer by blocking it receptors in college. https://science.howstuffworks.com/caffeine4.htm My trick is no adrenaline no caffeine effect. I would do 10 push ups or run around my car a few times and then drink down the caffeine and that changed everything.

Isn't the half-life of adrenaline like 90 seconds? Wouldn't you be a nervous wreck if it lasted much longer?

I think the parent comment is talking about the effects of adrenaline not the adrenaline dump itself.

As someone who, prior to being medicated, used to get a lot of panic attacks, I can safely say that the effects of too much adrenaline being dumped all at once is pretty inhibiting.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#103

Post by marpstar »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #86

Anecdotally, water and sugar directly affect my alertness while using caffeine. If I don't have enough water I get headaches and can't think straight. If my blood sugar is low due to not eating enough, or eating too much sugar and "crashing" then I might as well be asleep, even though I can't from the caffeine. I may have missed it, but I don't see where they account for the diet of their test subjects.

another anecdotal story: I generally skip breakfast and lunch and do most of my eating after work. I find that the longer I fast the more I can focus, provided that I stay hydrated. I do use caffeine (almost exclusively black coffee) for alertness and appetite suppression.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#104

Post by mkirklions »

_ak wrote: post #16

Interesting detail: look at where they authors are working. This is military research. And I'm not surprised. The problem of having to keep soldiers alert during long phases of sleep deprivation has been around since the early days of modern warfare.

Yes, this didnt seem like it was useful for daily use.

48 hours without sleep isnt realistic for most cases, and I dont think these results have anything to say about daily caffeine.

Also, I think the best advice is to learn your body. I cycle caffeine every few months. 2 cups all at once before I need 5 hours of productivity.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#105

Post by segmondy »

crazygringo wrote: post #58
jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

> "a form of caffeine that is particularly potent" I've heard this over and over, but as far as I can tell, caffeine = caffeine = caffeine. I'm not a chemist, but I can't find any mention of any different forms -- it's C8H10N4O2. [1] Is there any scientific evidence that alertness is related to anything but the quantity of caffeine, regardless of whether it's delivered as black tea, mate tea, coffee, pills, etc.? Ass…

Yeah, but combination of ingridents might affect it. "Monster Energy" does nothing for me. I can drink it and go to sleep. Mountain Dew will keep me more alert than it, Coffee keeps me more alert than Mountain Dew, and "Gridlock" energy drink from Aldi (knockoff of Monster Energy) is almost as good as Coffee. Different people react differently. If I need to stay up at night, only Coffee or Gridlock will do the trick.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#106

Post by mkirklions »

baldfat wrote: post #44

Trick: Boost your adrenaline by doing exercise before drinking down the caffeine. I learned that caffeine makes adrenaline last longer by blocking it receptors in college. https://science.howstuffworks.com/caffeine4.htm My trick is no adrenaline no caffeine effect. I would do 10 push ups or run around my car a few times and then drink down the caffeine and that changed everything.

Will be trying this.

My only note is that none of those things seem hard for someone that works out.

What is the intensity for these things? I can do about 60 pushups before they start to get hard and run for 30 minutes.

Do you need it to be intense? Or just do some exercise?

Thanks for the tip

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#107

Post by mkirklions »

drunkenmeister wrote: post #12

Is there a way we can use this algorithm for personal use?

Do you stay up for 48 hours straight?

Probably not.

I think the best advice is to learn your own body. Sure there are similarities between everyone, but good caffeine habits are more important than the dosage.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#108

Post by mkirklions »

krylon wrote: post #54
euroclydon wrote: post #5

Surely there’s a better drug than coffee for staying awake for a long time.

I once spent a boring Sunday afternoon researching the alternatives on Wikipedia. As far as I could find out, they are illegal (Amphetamine), prescription-only (Modafinil) and/or very bad for your health (Methamphetamine). Amphetamine and Methamphetamine are also rather addictive and apparently quitting once you formed a habit is no fun. Ephedrine might be an alternative, but in Germany, it's prescription-only, and I…

Uh... I hope I dont ruin anyones life talking about the legal solution...

So I found that psudoephedrine (cold medicine) is pretty darn close to amphetamines.

Find the 12 hour, 120mg capsules. I think you get 20 pills for like 6 dollars. Basically I'd take 2 saturday morning. Wait a half hour and drink caffeine as needed through the day.

Wow. I'm talking from 5AM until 2AM I am able to work. Not just stuff I enjoy, but even the worst of work.

Gl, dont get screwed by CVS's placebo and crappy brand name psudoephedrine. Be responsible.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#109

Post by 24gttghh »

_ak wrote: post #20
euroclydon wrote: post #5

Surely there’s a better drug than coffee for staying awake for a long time.

The Germans used metamphetamine during World War 2. They gave it nicknames Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate"), Stuka-Tabletten ("Stuka tablets"), Herman-Göring-Pillen, or Flieger-Marzipan ("pilot's marzipan"). It was freely available under the brand name "Pervitin" until 1941. From then on, you needed a prescription in order to purchase it.

Not just Germany, or Japan, but US Bomber pilots used Amphetamines in WW2[0], and the infantry in Vietnam[1].

[0]https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/10.1162/JINH_a_00212 (I could only find this abstract about US use.)

[1]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs...

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#110

Post by monktastic1 »

themodelplumber wrote: post #99
acconrad wrote: post #94

In case anyone found that study difficult to read, the optimal strategy was, over the course of 3 days, one 600mg dose after 12pm on days 2 and 3 of a 3 day string of sleep loss.

Thank you. I was thrown off because I couldn't believe I was looking at post-12pm. Those are pretty extreme circumstances. In my own case I've been tracking caffeine use and some helpful strategies are: - 30mg after a brief afternoon nap - 50mg to 60mg after a long afternoon nap that resulted in grogginess - 100mg after a terrible night's sleep and before a long meeting - Extreme care if I have an exhaustion headache…

12 pm is noon not midnight, in case that's what threw you off.
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