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The Cost of Developers

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Re: The Cost of Developers

#221

Post by valuearb »

heydenberk wrote: post #22

> the App Store dramatically lowered the barriers to entry for developers Is there any platform with higher barriers to entry than the App Store? iOS development requires a proprietary toolchain only available on Apple hardware, programming languages hardly used elsewhere, not to mention the $99/year developer fee and the litany of vague and arbitrarily enforced rules and content guidelines for App Store release.

LOL. I remember giving Ingram MicroD 50% of sales just to get stocked, then spending tens of thousands on advertisements, and on store sales promotions just to get them to order our software from Ingram MicroD. That after spending tens of thousands on printing manuals, boxes and duping disks.

And you want to talk about vague and arbitrary rules, just try to figure out why the stores that said they’d promote your software buried it in the back and returned it after cashing your checks.

My favorite was trying to get paid by Ingram MicroD. “It’s been 90 days, you agreed to pay within 45”.

“Oh sorry it’s friday, we only cut checks on Thursdays”

“Oh, you didn’t get your check? I’m sorry, I’d like to help but it’s thursday, we only cut checks on Tuesdays ..... oh I don’t know why she told you that, we never cut checks on Thursdays”

“The good news is I went ahead and cut your check, even though it’s only Wednesday. The bad news is our CEO is out of the office, so it isn’t signed yet ..... oh, I’m nit sure when he’ll be back, it’s a family vacation.”

Re: The Cost of Developers

#222

Post by pjmlp »

scarface74 wrote: post #212
jpindar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said games don't count.

I said games don’t count as far as a reason to care about Windows desktop dominance because “Windows” games are usually written on top of a cross platform framework that is fairly easily ported to another platform. Claiming Windows is important because of the number of Unity games that run on it is about like saying Windows is important because of the number of websites you can go to on it.

If that was that simple, we would already have the year of Linux Desktop Games, we don't and never will.

Yeah, I know about Steam on Linux, just a tiny drop of Steam on Windows.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#223

Post by pjmlp »

scarface74 wrote: post #141
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of "substantial money." There are many, many ecosystems where a Windows desktop app is the ideal platform. I spend my days writing libraries for Windows desktop software and sharing them with many other companies in the same space. Almost by definition, most of the companies in any particular set of domains will not be household names you've heard of. There are really very few consumer soft…

Still no one is giving specific examples. I spent my first 12 years as a developer doing Windows development,cut my teeth on MFC,ATL, COM/DCOM, VB6 and later on Windows Forms with .Net. But by mid 2008 the writing was on the wall and I had spent so much time at one company, I found that my skillset wasn't marketable. No one wanted "Windows desktop developers". They wanted web developers. I've spent last 10 years bein…

Because Web never will catch up with native, is changing into yet another VM just to try to keep up with mobile, and mobile is only a money maker when doing consulting and selling training, the apps gold rush is gone.

Windows development pays the bills, owns the tablets, laptops and desktop space outside US, and if that means being paid like COBOL consultants, even better.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#224

Post by pjmlp »

Eridrus wrote: post #144
heavenlyblue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does MS not actually want it or is it your thinking?

MS definitely doesn't want it. ChromeOS has already won in terms of device administration, because simpler devices are easier to administer, less prone to malware, etc. If native apps, e.g. Office, really get replaced by web apps, it's going to be all over for Windows as a profit center, and Windows will be hamstrung by it's legacy customers from embracing simpler ideas.

ChromeOS is no where to be seen in Europe, that doesn't sound like a victory to me.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#225

Post by mercutio2 »

Xaena wrote: post #214
mercutio2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things I find frustrating about BitBucket Server (it’s super slow, for one, it’s insistence on clobbering commit strings during merges is the biggest), but I’ve never wanted a commit compare view; I don’t even know what that is. Care to explain what you would use it for?

I'd be interested to hear about the slow behavior you're seeing. There are some tips and tricks for improving that.

Generally speaking, I have found Atlassian’s tools don’t scale well to megacorp usage. When there are thousands to tens of thousands of users connecting at peak times, stuff just gets extremely slow. Noticeably slower than when we all put up our own team-level Phabricator instances, although I’m obviously not adjusting for Phabricator downtime when inevitably the unofficial team sysadmin went on vacation and the server fell over.

I’m sure people involved in infrastructure are working on making this better, but I don’t have any visibility into that layer.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#226

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #223
scarface74 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still no one is giving specific examples. I spent my first 12 years as a developer doing Windows development,cut my teeth on MFC,ATL, COM/DCOM, VB6 and later on Windows Forms with .Net. But by mid 2008 the writing was on the wall and I had spent so much time at one company, I found that my skillset wasn't marketable. No one wanted "Windows desktop developers". They wanted web developers. I've spent last 10 years bein…

Because Web never will catch up with native, is changing into yet another VM just to try to keep up with mobile, and mobile is only a money maker when doing consulting and selling training, the apps gold rush is gone. Windows development pays the bills, owns the tablets, laptops and desktop space outside US, and if that means being paid like COBOL consultants, even better.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? The best I can find are the Stack Overflow developer survey for what developers are actually doing....

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/

Windows software development jobs have been in decline for years...

https://www.itwriting.com/blog/9121-stackoverflow-developer-...

Re: The Cost of Developers

#227

Post by isostatic »

JshWright wrote: post #11
apapli wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason? Simple. Developer mindshare. Microsoft lost it with Ballmer, and is getting it back under Satya. Ultimately Microsoft's success has always stemmed from providing platforms that support developers, and in turn they build great products people will pay for. And that drives Microsoft revenues, be it the OS, or nowadays, SaaS PaaS and IaaS (and OS).

> Developer mindshare. Microsoft lost it with Ballmer When I think of Ballmer, the first word that comes mind is "developers" (it's also the second... and the third...)

I think of Donkey Kong shouting "Developers Developers Developers!" while throwing chairs rather than barrels

Re: The Cost of Developers

#228

Post by pjmlp »

scarface74 wrote: post #226
pjmlp wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Web never will catch up with native, is changing into yet another VM just to try to keep up with mobile, and mobile is only a money maker when doing consulting and selling training, the apps gold rush is gone. Windows development pays the bills, owns the tablets, laptops and desktop space outside US, and if that means being paid like COBOL consultants, even better.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? The best I can find are the Stack Overflow developer survey for what developers are actually doing.... https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/ Windows software development jobs have been in decline for years... https://www.itwriting.com/blog/9121-stackoverflow-developer-...

The head hunters that fill my inbox.

I guess with 2 021 worldwide currently open positions on LinkedIn, there is something for many of us to be busy for many years.

Classic music also has been on the decline for centuries, yet composers still sell albums.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#229

Post by mathattack »

themacguffinman wrote: post #220
mathattack wrote: post #119

Interesting to see Microsoft playing nice with vendors. I’ve seen many play less than nice. (ISVs who host on Azure and badmouth Microsoft products)

Woah I had no idea that when you use Azure, you're morally obligated to like the company too.

If you’re in a partnership with them that both of you use as Marketing on your websites, you shouldn’t badmouth each other.

Re: The Cost of Developers

#230

Post by foobarbazetc »

mercutio2 wrote: post #142
foobarbazetc wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We switched from GitHub Enterprise to BitBucket Server several years ago and are pretty (80%) happy with the decision. Saved an absolute truck load of money. The only issue with BitBucket Server is that it (inexplicably) does not have a commit compare view. https://jira.atlassian.com/plugins/servlet/mobile#issue/BSER... This is such a massive oversight I have to conclude Atlassian themselves don’t use this product. I…

There are many things I find frustrating about BitBucket Server (it’s super slow, for one, it’s insistence on clobbering commit strings during merges is the biggest), but I’ve never wanted a commit compare view; I don’t even know what that is. Care to explain what you would use it for?

Just seeing all the commits/changes between two commits.

So with GitHub Enterprise when you push multiple commits, the webhook sends a “compare” URL which is a handy look at everything that got pushed.

It’s not possible to do the same thing with BitBucket Server.

You can compare two tags and get the same view. Or two branches. But not two commits.

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