Things I Regret About Node.js [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#21

Post by thosakwe » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

This was one of the more interesting software talks I've listened to recently. I like that it was very real - there are serious, serious problems with Node.js, and the fact that even the creator acknowledges these problems caught my attention.

I'm also a long-time user of Dart, so when he brought that up, and compared TypeScript to its shortcomings, I definitely agreed.

That being said, even with the Deno project, I'm not so sure what can come in terms of performance and security from running JavaScript outside of a browser. The choice of V8 also raises concerns for me about build systems. He mentioned the failing of GYP, but anything using the same build toolchain as Chromium always introduces a wealth of complexity for anyone building said software, as not only do you need Google-specific build tools, but also very specific configuration including Python.

It will be interesting to see what comes in the future.

If it were up to me (which I guess it isn't), I'd probably prioritize portability/less complex builds, built-in FFI, a flat module system, and optimizing calls to C from JS.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#22

Post by davidy123 » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

The first post in this issue has a summary of some performance problems with node.js: https://github.com/ry/deno/issues/162

Though, it's posted in a confrontational way so the conversation deteriorates.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#23

Post by sebringj » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #15

Maybe it is just me but Javascript is not my favourite dynamic language. Given project like ReasonML and other languages that have type inference prototyping is not harder than without types. Is it a valid argument that it slows you down? Not sure.

I was not happy having to do TypeScript on a project thinking in your point about slowing you down which initially is completely true if you are forced to tslint it to hell. However, I've done a 180 in that TypeScript is very nice when you relax the tslinter and you sprinkle it on as you go which gives you that extra feeling of being auto-guarded when its just more practical but without getting in your way which is exactly what Ryan was saying in his Deno approach. I've saved loads of run-time errors from VSCode knowing types ahead of time for example.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#24

Post by sametmax » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

mromanuk wrote: post #4

I was thinking, watching the video "Ryan should fork it, or start over"... until he revealed it: https://github.com/ry/deno :)

My head can't wrap itself around:

import { test } from "https://unpkg.com/deno_testing@0.0.5/testing.ts"

There is so many issues with that I don't even no where to begin.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#25

Post by Touche » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

davidy123 wrote: post #22

The first post in this issue has a summary of some performance problems with node.js: https://github.com/ry/deno/issues/162 Though, it's posted in a confrontational way so the conversation deteriorates.

No, that thread is everything that is wrong with open source.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#26

Post by dylrich » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #24

mromanuk wrote: post #4

I was thinking, watching the video "Ryan should fork it, or start over"... until he revealed it: https://github.com/ry/deno :)

My head can't wrap itself around: import { test } from " https://unpkg.com/deno_testing@0.0.5/testing.ts" There is so many issues with that I don't even no where to begin.

His arguments for it seemed reasonable - would love to hear your criticisms

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#27

Post by MatekCopatek » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #24

mromanuk wrote: post #4

I was thinking, watching the video "Ryan should fork it, or start over"... until he revealed it: https://github.com/ry/deno :)

My head can't wrap itself around: import { test } from " https://unpkg.com/deno_testing@0.0.5/testing.ts" There is so many issues with that I don't even no where to begin.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#28

Post by VeejayRampay » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

"And then there were people adding modules. I thought to myself, this projet is done now. So wrong."

Seriously why are we as a community still entertaining those outlandish statements and attitudes? If you heard that sentence as a non-tech person, you'd swear modules is a computer virus or something, that it's so inherently bad that it's not even worth discussing.

Props to Ryan for his amazing work, but come on let's try to be civil and respectful here.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#29

Post by hboon » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

modzu wrote: post #11

bshimmin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One-line jokes are generally not well-received on HN unless they are so exceptionally amusing and original that they are beyond reproach. The standard rationale for this - which can make HN seem very dry and humourless at times - is that people want to avoid HN becoming like Reddit.

thanks for answering. but thanks to the parent comment i learned about a new (albiet widely recognized) author. thats useful because we all come to hn to learn things. i suspect most downvoters probably dont even understand the reference and just see a joke qua joke. boo.

I don't know how entertaining they are for adults, but I enjoyed reading Boy and Going Solo when I was younger.

Re: Things I Regret About Node.js [video]

#30

Post by sebringj » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

Why I admire Ryan is "I shouldn't just complain without giving a solution..." and he gave a solution, more than once. I have done this on a no-one-cares scale but it really is better to do yourself when you can. Also, Ryan has some sharp sarcastic wit which is pretty fun to watch on this talk.