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Apple introduces macOS Mojave

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Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#451

Post by pcurve »

sologoub wrote: post #229
mistersquid wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My significant other suffers from depression. We are long distance and much of our daily communication is through text-messaging. We both rely on this one emoji to communicate more effectively: [0] We use others, but that one emoji makes all the difference in the world. Often we send only that single sign to each other. [0] https://emojipedia.org/smiling-face-with-smiling-eyes/ EDIT: Replace emoji with text descripti…

Very curious - what do you think makes the image version superior to the text-based smiley? And as a follow-on, do you think the animated and personalized versions of these emojis make it that much more effective? For me, the text version communicates the same meaning and context, so it’s fascinating to see examples where the representational medium has a significant impact.

it's definitely different for everybody. text based ones are limited in range of emotions they can convey.

I never understood people that spent money on digital goods until I found kakaotalk emojis.

for me there is no comparison. I adore their animated emojis and I'm willing to pay for them as do many others.

you can check them out.

https://youtu.be/sKCPUfPaJBI

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#452

Post by EpicEng »

macintux wrote: post #162
EpicEng wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people emojis (and animojis) have opened a whole new way to communicate with each other Wow that is an extremely generous characterization. At best they're just prettier versions of :) and :( and I don't see how they allow people to convey ideas they couldn't do just as well via text.

What’s the text version of a birthday cake? More challenging: what’s the text version of a singing, eye-rolling T-Rex? It’s fine to not care about emoji, but you can’t logically dismiss them as prettier smilies.

> What’s the text version of a birthday cake?

Is that a serious question?

> More challenging: what’s the text version of a singing, eye-rolling T-Rex?

Who cares because that's dumb? Can you tell me what deep emotional state is being conveyed by a T-rex rolling its eyes? I think you lost track of the premise we're debating.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#453

Post by engi_nerd »

jdietrich wrote: post #344
engi_nerd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an emoji a whole new way to communicate? EDIT: I meant this as a genuine question, not as a "how could you possibly think this" response.

I don't mean this to sound in any way cruel or judgemental, but a very large proportion of the population have very limited literacy skills. Emoji are useful for all users who are writing short, personal messages that might be ambiguous in tone. They are extremely useful for people who would otherwise struggle to express or understand tone and emotion using the written word. In the last National Assessment of Adult L…

Thank you for the reasoned and considered reply.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#454

Post by EpicEng »

macintux wrote: post #419
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s the text version of a birthday cake? "Happy birthday!" > More challenging: what’s the text version of a singing, eye-rolling T-Rex? Ok, you got me there, because I have no idea what concept is even meant to be communicated by such an absurd thing.

Let me put it another way: what’s the point of these newfangled moving pictures when we already have books?

> Let me put it another way: what’s the point of these newfangled moving pictures when we already have books?

Yeah, figured that would be trotted out at some point. That's a fine sounding argument, but do you really feel emoji's are on the same level as the advent of video? I don't believe you do. At some point you have to take a look at the specific thing you're talking about and get down out of the clouds.

I have yet to hear a reasonable argument as to why emoji's are better. All I see here is "they're different and can be funny." Ok.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#455

Post by EpicEng »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #395
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s the text version of a birthday cake? "Happy birthday!" > More challenging: what’s the text version of a singing, eye-rolling T-Rex? Ok, you got me there, because I have no idea what concept is even meant to be communicated by such an absurd thing.

> I have no idea what concept is even meant to be communicated by such an absurd thing Depends on context. If we were discussing someone, it might signal criticism or a desire to party. The fact that it cannot compress losslessly into words is the whole point.

> it might signal criticism or a desire to party

I'd like to see examples of both of these. Specifically how the T-Rex plays a role because, if you take the T-Rex out, we're back to something I can easily convey in ascii.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#456

Post by EpicEng »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #156
EpicEng wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people emojis (and animojis) have opened a whole new way to communicate with each other Wow that is an extremely generous characterization. At best they're just prettier versions of :) and :( and I don't see how they allow people to convey ideas they couldn't do just as well via text.

If you haven't seen how emojis are used in the wild to enhance communication, it's probably not for you.

You didn't read. I said that you can convey any of these equally well in ascii. Yes, it's handy to be able to plug an :) at the end of a sentence which may otherwise sound rude/overly direct. That doesn't mean I need 1000 icons, and _that's what we're talking about_.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#457

Post by EpicEng »

paulcole wrote: post #165
EpicEng wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people emojis (and animojis) have opened a whole new way to communicate with each other Wow that is an extremely generous characterization. At best they're just prettier versions of :) and :( and I don't see how they allow people to convey ideas they couldn't do just as well via text.

Yeah I agree. Why would anyone prefer something that looked nicer than an old thing? Has anything like this phenomenon ever been observed in the past?

Ok well here's what I actually said. It's right up there if you want to take another look.

> At best they're just prettier versions of :) and :( and I don't see how they allow people to convey ideas they couldn't do just as well via text.

Never did I say "These are dumb get off my lawn!" I said they don't meaningfully impact or improve communication, which is in direct response to the person I replied to who said that they have "opened a whole new way to communicate."

That's a serious claim, I'd like to see a single coherent argument to show it's actually the case. But, no, all I get are mischaracterizations of what I said.

The debate is not "are pretty things nice", it's "have emoji's fundamentally improved communication".

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#458

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

macintux wrote: post #446
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a better argument, but it still doesn't really explain what qualities make emoji a better medium of expression, or why we need 2000 of them.

The fact that they’re wildly popular should provide some indication that the qualities exist. Communication is rife with ambiguities, emotion, shortcuts, and mistakes. And between people who share friendship or more personal relationships, those “flaws” are often features, not bugs. The concept of emoji, I feel, embraces those flaws. (And personally speaking on the subject of emoji vs common text shorthand, if I neve…

Many popular things are not quality things.

> (And personally speaking on the subject of emoji vs common text shorthand, if I never see “lol” again it’ll be too soon.)

Funny, I feel the same way about emoji. I dunno, maybe I'm too autistic to get it, but when people use emoji it makes me feel like I'm talking to a child who hasn't learned express themselves like an adult yet.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#459

Post by veidr »

Fnoord wrote: post #408
zevyoura wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be pretty hard to express the sentiment the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ emoji can, and even if you put the effort into writing it, you'd lose the immediacy. "meh"

Funnily, I have no clue what "meh" means. 1) The emoji has several possible interpretations/meanings depending on context, such as "I don't know", "I don't care", "indifference" or "shrug". There's this saying, "a picture says a thousand words". It applies here (nobody said the words couldn't be a few words in hundreds of different languages ;)). 2) The emoji generally does not require translation to different langua…

> emoji generally does not require translation to different languages

Really good point. I don't find watching a keynote speeches about emoji at all exciting, either. But I work on a mixed-language engineering team with a lot of (extremely smart, highly literate) people, and we use emoji all the time.

Whether it's cold-sweat-face or thinking-face really helps me understand the nuance of my colleague's Japanese comments (which, btw, as a native English speaker with only fair Japanese ability, gives me a free opportunity to experience 'basic or lower literacy').

I know that adding emoji characters helps them in the same way, so I use them frequently.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#460

Post by bluedino »

agitator wrote: post #442
dav43 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its so disappointing, with all the resources and talent at their disposal, that the pace and direction of macOS - to truly advance a desktop system - is so lack luster, "un-courageous", and as you put it boring.

I'm just curious, what "courageous" changes would you like to see in macOS? Last time I saw a courageous desktop OS change, it was Windows merging their Mobile and desktop OS, and that was a hard fail. It's a workstation. I prefer reliability and consistency. I think Apple knows they need to keep the general public buying macbooks with stupid superficial features, while maintaining consistent, reliable, functionality…

>> I'm just curious, what "courageous" changes would you like to see in macOS?

Modern OpenGL? App store with useful apps?

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