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Hello, GitHub

natfriedman.github.io

261–270 of 671 posts

Re: Hello, GitHub

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pricing structure for a single dev is seriously uncompetitive $7/month is a burden? What's it competing with except a fancy coffee or two?

Remember, these costs add up quite easy. Why bother if I can get the same features for free? But it really depends on how you view it. I felt I got better value by supporting an open source project I like on patreon (Godot) than spending my money on this subscription.

> Remember, these costs add up quite easy.

Some single developers are perhaps a bit spoiled. Other professions need offices, stores, work trucks, thousands of dollars in physical tools that they'll need to maintain and replace as they wear out. We need a computer and have the option of a $7/month subscription to perpetually-updated professional tools. $7/month doesn't cover the printer paper most professionals go through in a month. Software developers need a computer and that's about it, and some apparently find $7/month "uncompetitive" because that fee didn't come with sufficient feel-good about charitable giving or something. All the software and professional services I subscribe to as a single developer don't add up to the cost of maintaining and fueling the van my A/C repair guy shows up in, so I have to disagree that they add up quite easy.

Re: Hello, GitHub

#262
I guess he started with wrong note.

He is developer since six - since 1983. This means his family was wealthy one. He also survived two years of Microsoft.

Now even sceptical and lazy me thinks I have to move out of github. ;)

Re: Hello, GitHub

#263
I'm pleased that Microsoft has opened up, changed and grown so much in recent years. Congratulations to the entire GitHub team for making such a wonderful community and set of tools easily available, and for their successful acquisition. It will be fascinating to see where this goes - who would have imagined that a former heavyweight of proprietary software would achieve such a transformation?

I must ask the question now, though - is it time for a non-profit Github-like open source community with integrated source control / tools? Could that even exist due to the costs of running such a thing, and is it necessary? For example, it would be like if The Apache Foundation ran GitHub.

Or should we look into things like git over IPFS (or something similar) and try to go decentralized?

I have wrestled with the for-profit / not-for-profit conundrum my whole life, and I still do. Obviously, running such a utility / community costs money, so it is good to have one or more healthy companies supporting it. It should mean good things. But ultimately, both GitHub and Microsoft are primarily for-profit entities (although I know they both do a tremendous amount to support the not-for-profit space).

Perhaps Microsoft could even be the one to set up such a non-profit... like.. "The Microsoft Foundation for Open Source" or something similar. Knowing that the organization owning and managing such a utility and community is a non-profit - good or bad?

EDIT: ..perhaps like they have done with the .NET Foundation?

Re: Hello, GitHub

#264
post #7

I’m going to be a bit contrarian to “the sky is falling” posts on HN and say: I think Microsoft is handling this really well. 1) They’ve acknowledged the skepticism around the acquisition. 2) They’ve expressed their commitment to keep GitHub an independent platform (like they did with LinkedIn.) 3) Nat Friedman, although I was not familiar with him prior to this, seems like an ideal candidate to run GitHub. This, ove…

I've felt similar. There's been some impressive innovation from MS in the dev space recently: VS Code is a pleasure to use, Azure wasn't quite as intimidating as AWS can be (but who can blame them, AWS has a lot more legacy). Windows 10 was pleasant to work with, telemetry issues aside. Things are shifting.

In fact, I think there's a strong 'once a criminal, always a criminal' mentality that takes a healthy skepticism to an unreasonable level. At least with the benefit of the doubt you can be wary of what Microsoft's intentions really are, but I don't think it's productive to go 20 years into the past and pretend that absolutely nothing has changed since, and rehashing everything from that time as if it only happened yesterday. It's an unreasonable standard and if nothing else, it presents the self-fulfilling prophecy where you're only satisfied once you've found proof that Microsoft today hasn't changed at all. So you've practically doomed GitHub to fail post-acquisition because you've already decided it _will_.

I'm not sure why you'd want that. So on that level I hope that Microsoft doesn't betray the gigantic community that has built around GitHub, which itself has taken open source to a whole new level. It's an appeal to emotion, I know, but I just don't see the value in being straight up negative in the light of recent evidence that suggests the contrary. You would never hold yourself to such an unforgiving standard (unless you wanted to sacrifice yourself on the altar), so it's better to give it a chance instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

(Secretly, I'd love it if they, for example, rethought the pricing strategy and offered free private repos the same as every competitor does.)

That said, it's a little worrying that tech is continuing to consolidate around the giants.

Re: Hello, GitHub

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes same here. I’m really surprised by all the Microsoft hate as if we were still in the 80-90’s. MS is one of the biggest open source contributors nowadays. It's also really weird how people idealize GitHub. Did they forget GitHub was not a non-profit association, they were losing money, they deleted users repositories on their own, they had management issues, and people have been waiting some features for very long…

Once bitten, twice shy. Moreover, although I agree Microsoft is making efforts to change [1], pro-Microsoft partisans make it clear much of this is due to the new CEO. What one CEO does, another can undo. GitHub's bus factor is now 1. I would much rather have seen them go public. They were losing money, but not, last I saw, at a rate that was absurd for building a SaaS business. Is there some reason to think they cou…

You're acting as if the opensource initiative in MS of late is down to Nadella and nothing else. It's much more a case of market forces changing and an acceptance of opensource within corporations.

Re: Hello, GitHub

#266
I think what bothers me about this announcement is that _anyone_ owns Github; that is, a tech giant with a lot of influence in the software world owning the largest repository of code in history. Something feels wrong about it. I'd be as uncomfortable with it if Google or Facebook or Apple owned it.

Re: Hello, GitHub

#267
post #7

I’m going to be a bit contrarian to “the sky is falling” posts on HN and say: I think Microsoft is handling this really well. 1) They’ve acknowledged the skepticism around the acquisition. 2) They’ve expressed their commitment to keep GitHub an independent platform (like they did with LinkedIn.) 3) Nat Friedman, although I was not familiar with him prior to this, seems like an ideal candidate to run GitHub. This, ove…

I don't fully understand point 2.

Is just making GitHub better worth $7.5 billion dollars for Microsoft? It will stay independent for this pile of cash? Why they bought it? For prestige?

For me the answer is that it can't be independent for long as it was (with VCs on its back was it ever?). It will gain Live login, maybe they will integrate it so you could login with your GitHub credentials to your computer if you so desire. But that's hardly worth billions.

Maybe the better thing would be what others suggested - setup a non-profit that would run GitHub and all those big companies could put something in the jar. Certainly less than what was paid. But I know it can't work, VCs want their exit.

For me it's a same game for GitLab. Current situation probably will accelerate GitLab's burn rate so prepare for the next acquisition.

Re: Hello, GitHub

#268
post #262

I guess he started with wrong note. He is developer since six - since 1983. This means his family was wealthy one. He also survived two years of Microsoft. Now even sceptical and lazy me thinks I have to move out of github. ;)

His family was wealthy, and he worked at Microsoft for two years, so you have to move out from GitHub?

What are you even trying to say?

Re: Hello, GitHub

#270

> GitHub will operate independently as a community, platform, and business. Had Github been bought by an foundation operating outside the confides of the market, then such statement would have been believable. Microsoft will naturally use Github maximise its wealth, thus when disagreements arise then Microsoft will put its will through. It is of course easy to imagine ways Github could be used by Microsoft, fore inst…

For the last 20 years or so, Microsoft lost a lot of mind-share. They are good at developer tools and GitHub provides them with the venue for the community. Unless Microsoft sees amazing value on the Community platform of GitHub they would not have spent $7.5 Billion on it. They do realize developer brain-trust is the long game they need to win, and GitHub fits that strategy.

> They do realize developer brain-trust is the long game they need to win, and GitHub fits that strategy.

Only problem is that this move was net-negative wrt developer trust.

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