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Microsoft acquires Github

blogs.microsoft.com

521–530 of 840 posts

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics is not a zero-sum game. Just because the company is making money doesn't mean that you are losing something. Github has been underwater for years, would you rather it be propped up by a big corporate sponsor that can subsidize its losses, or run out of money and die? I expect to move, because I also do not trust microsoft, but I am not moving yet until I see what they do with it.

>Economics is not a zero-sum game. This is not what I'm implying. >I am not moving yet until I see what they do with it. If you are too late, you might not get your projects off without paying fees.

>If you are too late, you might not get your projects off without paying fees. This thinking belies a misunderstanding of how Git works. There is no way they can prevent a person from pushing to another repo and recreating whatever workflow they had on Github.

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But "extend" hasn't happened yet. If we wait for it to happen by then it will be too late

So you're saying anytime a new technology gets embraced by anyone it's time to jump ship? That's ridiculous. Should we be abandoning email because Outlook exists? Edit: Actually, I don't think the idea of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" even applies to buying out companies. The idea behind that phrase applies to technologies, not companies. You can't "extend" GitHub with proprietary tech, it was never an open source te…

No need to get concerned. Just look at codeplex, it fully supports Git and Microsoft haven't touched that feature. :P

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former windows phone user and .NET developer who is currently a mobile developer, Microsoft definitely treated mobile developers worse than any other company. They killed what small progress they’d made on their ecosystem 2 times, simply because they got bored and decided they didn’t like the technology stack they’d previously mandated and supported. They deserved to get buried in that space. Meanwhile Apple hav…

As someone who also developed on windows phone I really disagree with this portrayal. Microsoft did not change the stack on account of "getting bored" with the tech. Looking back on it, they took on an extremely difficult problem having a completely new marketplace and platform against competitors with tremendous amount of pre-existing traction. There were clearly some pivots towards universal windows compatibility,…

None of what you said actually justifies this to a developer. Microsoft may claim "developers, developers, developers" but when it came to mobile, they screwed the platform not once but twice.

Trust has two main dimensions in my view, compassion and competence. Microsoft was not competent enough to have a surviving platform in the face of iOS or Android... even though they had roughly a 8 year lead.

That doesn't earn my trust.

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#524
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia engineers wanted to move to Android, but the M̶S̶ ̶M̶o̶l̶e̶ then current CEO made a prikaz to go with Windows Phone.

Android was really hated by middlemanagers at nokia. Android was eating Nokia's lunch in mid-end phones, and managers lost their sales bonuses. When Nokia went to talk to Google and Microsoft, Google gave the "here's the deal everyone gets" and Microsoft "we'll do anything for you". Finally Nokia managers were full of hubris, and believed Nokias was still the center of mobile, and so important it to change the course…

>When Nokia went to talk to Google and Microsoft, Google gave the "here's the deal everyone gets" and Microsoft "we'll do anything for you".

This is a well regurgitated lie that I see posted often. If you would like the truth about what really happened I suggest you read Operation Elop.

According to a source present, Google seemed to really want Nokia to join the Android world. The company assured that Android can be customized more than Nokia understood, especially compared with Windows Phone. Even if Google was criticized continuously for having Samsung, HTC and Sony Android phones differ from each other too much, Nokia would be given leeway to create its own user experience. Google saw that Nokia differentiated from these competitors in that it had a global area of operation. Nokia would be able to create better local services and user experiences for network providers and customers, one person present remembers being discussed. The Nokians also noticed that they had been living partially with misinformation. Nokia could continue with Android with its own maps side-by-side with Google’s maps. The same applied with the app store. Nokia’s music service as well as ovi.com could continue, as long as the phone had Google Play.

The discussions continued at a fast pace after the first visit. Google seemed to really want Nokia.

Some constraints were set by the Open Handset Alliance behind Android, OHA. Unlike Windows Phone, Android is not controlled by one company, rather by an alliance of 84 companies which is led by Google, where the members are able to use Android in an equal manner. Google was in a difficult position. By giving Nokia special privileges, it risked its relationship with other manufacturers. The reactions would be difficult to predict. Creativity was needed.

As the negotiations proceeded, a solution was found. Google offered Nokia, among other things, plenty of say in choosing the direction of Android development. By directing Android development to align with its own competitive goals, Nokia would gain some advantage, even if the changes would be available for everyone at the same time. Now Nokia was interested. Android and Nokia had an area where their interests converged in a brilliant way: Developing countries. If Android could be made to work on cheap hardware, Nokia would be best at getting in through in developing markets. The arrangement was enticing. Google would secure the position it was dreaming of in smartphones, and Nokia would become part of virgin Android markets. The precise details remained hidden, but Nokia was able to learn that Google worked Android into clearly cheaper models than Windows Phone.

Another flexible point of Android was in its predictability. Nokia wanted to publicize the new software features earlier than when the phones go into sales. The reason was brutal: Nokia was more solid than its Korean competitor and needed more time to build a phone. If the information about the new Android features was available earlier, Nokia would have enough time to get them in the first wave, like the others. Google was willing. It promised to make the publicizing of its plans earlier and to release the source code to its partners. The solution would have been useless for other Android manufacturers in relation to Nokia, but would not have broken the OHA rules.

Google made a substantial offer regarding distribution of income. Nokia would have gotten a portion of the income from Google’s search engine, app store, and other services which originate from Nokia phones, and the terms would be in relation to Nokia’s influence in the ecosystem. We don’t have information about precise percentages, but at any rate, Google’s promise was quite exceptional, considering that Nokia would still have been able to keep its own services in its phones.

Contrary to what Nokia has claimed, Google was ready for concessions. It was ready to flex as far as it could in the framework of OHA, and even then some more.

Then some big money stepped into the game, as well as the mysterious Nokia employee with the name Rahul Mewawalla.

https://medium.com/@harrikiljander/operation-elop-6f2b043f52...

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#525
post #187
post #58

From a financial perspective, any purchasing company with enterprise sales / support experience is a great fit. Having MS backing GitHub suddenly makes it a feasible option for a lot of conservative enterprise customers.

Exactly. A big concern for enterprise customers (that often drove them to Atlassian over Github) was the fear that Github was "just a startup" and might disappear at any moment and the lack of integration with existing enterprise tools. If MS can put together a comprehensive platform here that doesn't cost an arm and a leg they could dominate this market. The real story here is that nobody wants to host their own ser…

The success of Atlassian shows that you can have a great business in development tools without caring much about developer experience.

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#526
I get it, its the way this industry works. Build up a solid product, grow the user base, continue to lose money until you sell the business and cash out.

I'm not against the company or the founders making money. This is America after all. What is disappointing to me and others in the open source community is that we have zero say over something that we helped build.

This sale to Microsoft is just another reason why we need something new, a new system that can be owned by individuals and not corporations. I would love to see something where the developers and users actually have a stake in what happens, and can in turn profit from it as well.

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#527
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. A big concern for enterprise customers (that often drove them to Atlassian over Github) was the fear that Github was "just a startup" and might disappear at any moment and the lack of integration with existing enterprise tools. If MS can put together a comprehensive platform here that doesn't cost an arm and a leg they could dominate this market. The real story here is that nobody wants to host their own ser…

Which partly was great marketing from Atlassian because it isn't like they are that far removed from "just a startup" either.

Have you missed their IPO?

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#528
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RHAT is about making money too. They do a good job of it. Unlike Microsoft, however, they can't seem to make GUIs where the font metrics are right (eg. can you read the text properly or does the text overlap or end up being too big or too small for the space?) or scrollbars. Linux is a winner for server apps but on the desktop it seems to get worse over time, not better.

>Linux is a winner for server apps but on the desktop it seems to get worse over time, not better. No, not really. The problem is too many people (like you maybe) associate "Linux desktop" with "Gnome (3)". That's false; there's a bunch of different DEs for Linux. Just look at Xfce; it isn't getting worse. KDE seems to be getting no worse too.

I do not associate it with Gnome3 but I have to ask (as I am not longer a desktop Linux user), do they still rewrite every system utility every couple of releases? Back when Fedora Core was a thing, they rewrote the GUI utilities every couple of releases, without actually improving them from what I could tell. And despite installing a binary distribution, they insisted on writing these in Python with bindings to the in-fashion GUI library (typically GTK). This meant the utilities were dog slow and generally very poor. Why not write a compiled binary? Didn't make sense to me.

Do they still do that?

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#529
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy for non .NET jobs too. Their developer tools are pretty good for their own platform (but JetBrains actually makes great cross platform tools, some of them are proper free and open source, VSCode is playing catch up). Their C++ stdlib implementation was sucking balls for decades. Their (the dev tools') scriptability was horrible. PowerShell is nice, but it came too late, and it was too server focused.…

MSVC's stdlib is still a headache, just see the /std flag[1] which only appeared in msvc2017: you can either have C++14 with some C++17 features, or C++ "latest" which means 17 and missing features. EDIT: just noticed the article says it was also added to 2013, but my 2015 doesn't support it so idk. I can conceive PowerShell being good as a scripting language, but as a day to day terminal? That would my hell. And the…

Perhaps it should be renamed to Power Hell?

Re: Microsoft acquires Github

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains products aren't Open Source. So how is embracing a closed source for-profit company anything to do with embracing Open Source?

> how is embracing a closed source for-profit company anything to do with embracing Open Source? Truly embracing open-source with .NET core would mean that, yes, even a proprietary product could make use of it. A debugger is extremely core to having a language being open-source and artificially limiting it to your own products is the exact opposite of 'embrace' Also, JetBrains does have an open-source debugger in the…

By that token Richard Stalman doesn't embrace open source. The Linux kernel isn't open source. Anything that is GPL is not open source, because you can't make proprietary code from GPL code.
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