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Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

nytimes.com

111–120 of 233 posts

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#111
post #96
post #17

>The company continued to build new private APIs for device makers through 2014, spreading user data through tens of millions of mobile devices, game consoles, televisions and other systems outside Facebook’s direct control. So Facebook says "we don't sell data," but they are giving manufacturers access to data in exchange for being integrated/pre-installed on the device. How is that not "selling" data? Just because…

They're not giving manufacturers access to data in exchange for being integrated/pre-installed on the device; they're giving those manufacturers' apps access to data because they need that access in order to be able to present that data to the users who are accessing Facebook through those apps. It's not a quid pro quo, it's something that's fundamentally necessary for the apps in question to actually allow users to…

That might have been true in certain cases, but the article makes it clear there were other situations:

>Facebook acknowledged that some partners did store users’ data — including friends’ data — on their own servers. A Facebook official said that regardless of where the data was kept, it was governed by strict agreements between the companies.

Furthermore, why would they be putting an end to all these "partnerships" if they were "fundamentally necessary for the app"? Manufacturers can turn to the normal api that any other app dev uses.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#112
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with FB on this one. The privacy issue with 3rd party developers was that friend data was sent to the 3rd party developer databases. Here, the data just stays on the device. The way the article is titled can make it look like the device makers actually got to make their own database of Facebook users. Edit: I read it again, the article does say "Facebook acknowledged that some partners did store users’ data — i…

Once an app has particular data, there is nothing FB can do to prevent it from uploading that data wherever. It would be difficult for Google or Apple to prevent that, and they control the platform. With enough apps, it is a certainty that this happened.

Have you heard of the power of legally enforceable contracts? Lots of things aren't technically impossible but are forbidden by the law or by a contract. It's one of the ways modern societies function, check it out!

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#113
post #110

Having read (been warned) "Chaos Monkeys" and "Dragnet Nation" this comes as no surprise. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/business/dealbook/revi... https://www.npr.org/books/titles/281981849/dragnet-nation-a-... Editorial: It's startling to me how outfits as reputable as NYT can time and again parrot a narative (e.g., FB is better than sliced bread), and then after the fact report on something that was right un…

I've been reading studies about how facebook makes you depressed for years. Facebook may have had a golden age around the time of the Arab spring, is that the narrative you're referring to?

The two books mentioned are not new. One is specific to FB and reviewed in the NYT. The other might have been reviewed there as well. I did not dive that deep.

The narrative is more about the MSM's alleged ignorance about FB's biz model, biz practices, etc. All those "journalist" and not a single question.

The point is, this is old news. It borders on fake news. Real news boils down to two things. It's new. And it's relevant.

Again, if the NYT - as a MSM outlet - is the best we got then we deserve better.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#114

Having read (been warned) "Chaos Monkeys" and "Dragnet Nation" this comes as no surprise. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/business/dealbook/revi... https://www.npr.org/books/titles/281981849/dragnet-nation-a-... Editorial: It's startling to me how outfits as reputable as NYT can time and again parrot a narative (e.g., FB is better than sliced bread), and then after the fact report on something that was right un…

> Editorial: It's startling to me how outfits as reputable as NYT can time and again parrot a narative (e.g., FB is better than sliced bread), and then after the fact report on something that was right under their nose all along.

That is almost completely a problem of the format of news articles, and that journalists have to write for a lowest common denominator. Take as an example from the NYT article:

> Details of Facebook’s partnerships have emerged amid a reckoning in Silicon Valley over the volume of personal information collected on the internet and monetized by the tech industry.

That, plus the next paragraph, is basically the entire context the NYT can give about a discussion about privacy that ranges from the inception of the Internet, spawned numerous NGOs like the EFF, etc. To present an sort of accurate picture, they would need a five volume work, so they have to rely on their readers already knowing something about internet privacy, and this is only meant as a reminder.

The same problem seems to be with the entire article, the NYT seems to define "third party" as any party that is not Facebook, while Facebook defines "third party" as app developer. If I understand the NYT article, and Facebook's press release [0], the entire kerfuffle seems to be about an legacy api that can only be accessed by device makers, and it is entirely unclear if device makers have to exfiltrate the data from the individual devices, or if they have access to FB's databases. [1]

The problem in the context of writing articles is, that one needs a quite technical article of the same length as this one to explain the lowest common denominator news reader what the difference between those two scenarios is. (Remember the average reader does not know what an api is, does not know what local or remote means in the context of handheld devices, does not know the difference between an OS and an app, and in general is not a programmer.)

The quality of news gets even worse, because market pressures push newspapers like the NYT to conform to a certain set of newsworthy topics and to a specific framing of these topics. They have to adhere to a certain set of newsworthy topics, because people who talk with their co-workers about news don't really appreciate it, if their newspaper did not write anything about the topic. And they are pushed to a specific telling of these topics, because some of their readers are checking different newspapers and if they have incompatible framing of the news, then those readers will at some point conclude that the majority of newspapers is right.

[0] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/06/why-we-disagree-with-th...

(h/t to whoever posted it in the comments)

[1] Note, in the first case FB did constrain the ability of the device makers to access data on the phone, by getting them to sign TOS of the api. In the second case, FB is just lying about a breach of privacy for any reasonable definition of "third party."

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#115
post #5

What is this describing? First-party apps with Facebook integration and/or OS features connecting to Facebook? The leakage of Facebook information onto MS/Apple/Blackberry servers would be concerning, but having Microsoft software connect to Facebook on a user's device sounds harmless (to the extent we trust MS/Apple/Blackberry software to not leak information so accessed). Right now I'm giving Apple similar access t…

Yes, I didn't quite understand that. Apple had this to say: > An Apple spokesman said the company relied on private access to Facebook data for features that enabled users to post photos to the social network without opening the Facebook app, among other things. So is this like what connecting your Facebook account in Settings does? Allow you share pictures through the share sheet in Photos or whatever? What does App…

Apple is basically outsourcing user data mining to Facebook so that they can take the high groud.

Didn't Tim Cook just two months back bragged about how Apple doesn't do certain things? He was right. He asked Facebook to do that for him.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This disregard for ethics has allowed Facebook to “grow at all costs." There's a great phrase for this: "move fast and break things". When you believe it is ok to break small rules and norms, it becomes easier to break larger norms and ethics and rules. This philosophy took SV by storm, but at its core it's always been about disregarding things like laws and ethics, and now we are seeing the world that created.

You might think that that's a great phrase for it, but many other people don't interpret "move fast and break things" to mean what you think it means. I'm all for criticizing things that have gone wrong, but you're using an overly-broad brush.

The original quote is:

> Move fast and break things. Unless you are breaking stuff, you are not moving fast enough.

In the technical space, things may be legacy code or APIs. In the business space, things may be ethics and laws, and this incidentally is exactly the model we see in companies like Facebook and Uber and AirBnB.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#117
This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the entire software stack). This is a non-story.

And HN's facebook derangement syndrome continues.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#118
post #5

What is this describing? First-party apps with Facebook integration and/or OS features connecting to Facebook? The leakage of Facebook information onto MS/Apple/Blackberry servers would be concerning, but having Microsoft software connect to Facebook on a user's device sounds harmless (to the extent we trust MS/Apple/Blackberry software to not leak information so accessed). Right now I'm giving Apple similar access t…

This might explain why I got random people's profile pictures assigned to my phone's "$MY_CITY Taxi" address book entry... people who have I have 0 shared friends with, who happened to add the local taxi service's phone number as their phone number as a joke or whatever.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#119

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

Should that data have been available via a web API or Facebook's HTML though?

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the law need to change for this? Facebook should disclose what they do with your data, and that is about it. At that point, it is really up to you to decide if you want to play ball...

So Facebook gets to make the rules? The law changes whenever we feel like it should, that's how democracy works. You say why should the laws change and why shouldn't we individually decide whether or not to play ball? For one thing, Facebook creates profiles of people who don't have accounts, but for another, and more importantly: Why should companies not be able to dump toxins in rivers? It's up to us whether we wan…

Yes you should fight to change the law if you don't like it and likewise I do not think the law need to be changed nor the more regulation is needed so I will fight it too. In this case the harm (if any) that fb make is not substantial enough for me to care.
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