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The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

pudding.cool

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Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#21

Post by 21 »

bdjshsvajwv wrote: post #18
21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Except that websites are intended to be functional while songs are intended to be works of art. Thats the problem. Why are we treating music like an industrial product? (The answer is money)

> The answer is money

The individual artist or producer which want's to have a number one song is not driven mainly by money. The drive is just wanting to be the best. And being the best in such a competitive field requires having a highly polished product.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#22

Post by 21 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #20
21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Why can't both be true? In both your examples, you can have tremendous diversity, craftsmanship and sophistication within a quite narrow range of parameters. You could say "artistry" (bold statements, individual expression, etc) has been replaced by "design" (sophisticated choices based on following existing trends and extended them just the right amount, standing out not too much, not too little, etc).

> quite narrow range of parameters

I think it's just a statistical problem.

Target A: you want your song to be liked by 10 thousand people

Target B: you want your song to be liked by 1 billion people

I don't think there is less art in a massively popular song. It's just a different kind of art.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#23

Post by joe_the_user »

bdjshsvajwv wrote: post #18
21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Except that websites are intended to be functional while songs are intended to be works of art. Thats the problem. Why are we treating music like an industrial product? (The answer is money)

Two hundred years ago, most popular music existed primarily as simply a support for public dancing. The audience didn't expect to sit and listen to compelling virtuosos perform.

It was only the advent of recorded music that allowed individual performers of popular music to gain specific audiences (with free jazz performers of 1930s being perhaps the first popular recording artists noted for producing "works of art").

So music as just a product, in ways, isn't by itself new or evil. Now one can take issue with the characteristics of our modern music.

For discussion of the history of pop music, I'd recommend

Elijah Wald's How the Beatles Destroyed Rock 'n' Roll

http://www.elijahwald.com/beatlespop.html

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#25

Post by ireflect »

mwcampbell wrote: post #19

> The two most similar songs from 2007 to 2011 were Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream” and Kesha’s “We R Who We R” , and they indeed sound alike. I disagree. I just listened to both songs on Spotify, and they do not sound alike. Different keys, different vocal ranges, different voices, different instruments (or at least, different synthesized sounds). The Kesha song has more electronic effects on her voice. Kesha raps, whi…

That's like saying blue bubblegum and pink bubblegum make for a diverse range of foods. I guess maybe that seems like the case, given we've all mostly been eating bubblegum for some time.

There are far more similarities in these songs that have a greater impact:

* Very similar tempo (approx 120 bpm)

* Very similar keys (Eb Major vs Bb Major)

* Very similar dynamics (crushed and loud)

* Very similar ultra-present vocal processing

* Very similar light syncopation (Katy Perry's synth chords vs Kesha's chopped vocals)

(edit: formatting)

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#26

Post by mwcampbell »

ireflect wrote: post #25
mwcampbell wrote: post #19

> The two most similar songs from 2007 to 2011 were Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream” and Kesha’s “We R Who We R” , and they indeed sound alike. I disagree. I just listened to both songs on Spotify, and they do not sound alike. Different keys, different vocal ranges, different voices, different instruments (or at least, different synthesized sounds). The Kesha song has more electronic effects on her voice. Kesha raps, whi…

That's like saying blue bubblegum and pink bubblegum make for a diverse range of foods. I guess maybe that seems like the case, given we've all mostly been eating bubblegum for some time. There are far more similarities in these songs that have a greater impact: * Very similar tempo (approx 120 bpm) * Very similar keys (Eb Major vs Bb Major) * Very similar dynamics (crushed and loud) * Very similar ultra-present voca…

Yeah, you're right. The differences I listed are only superficial variations on the same template.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#27

Post by existencebox »

joe_the_user wrote: post #23
bdjshsvajwv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that websites are intended to be functional while songs are intended to be works of art. Thats the problem. Why are we treating music like an industrial product? (The answer is money)

Two hundred years ago, most popular music existed primarily as simply a support for public dancing. The audience didn't expect to sit and listen to compelling virtuosos perform. It was only the advent of recorded music that allowed individual performers of popular music to gain specific audiences (with free jazz performers of 1930s being perhaps the first popular recording artists noted for producing "works of art").…

I'm no music expert, but that (specifically your statement about dancing being premier) doesn't jive with what little bits I know. Granted you could narrowly define bits and pieces of what you said to constrain the set of artists you're talking about, but insofar as you mention free jazz of the 1930s as an early example of producing "art for art's sake", there are certainly earlier comparable examples, the "futurists" of the 1920s and earlier being one (Varese, who was conducting as early as the 1910's) and whose art was _VERY MUCH_ an artistic display intended to push forward electronic sounds.

I'm sure someone with a background in musical history can cite many examples even further back, my point being, I think there's been a constant gradient of music For Dance vs. music For Art, I don't think it's fair to say that one or the other is in any way particularly novel. (Victorian era music, for example, was a wide spread including everything from operatic virtuosos, to public house performances for dancing)

To your other point however, I certainly agree that music as a product is not new, that concept dates back long past even the eras of our classical masters.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#28

Post by ThomPete »

bdjshsvajwv wrote: post #18
21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Except that websites are intended to be functional while songs are intended to be works of art. Thats the problem. Why are we treating music like an industrial product? (The answer is money)

The second you put music on “cd” its not art but a product. The idea of the musician as an artist is highly inaccurate.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#30

Post by ThomPete »

mwcampbell wrote: post #19

> The two most similar songs from 2007 to 2011 were Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream” and Kesha’s “We R Who We R” , and they indeed sound alike. I disagree. I just listened to both songs on Spotify, and they do not sound alike. Different keys, different vocal ranges, different voices, different instruments (or at least, different synthesized sounds). The Kesha song has more electronic effects on her voice. Kesha raps, whi…

None of those defines whether a song is similar. The melody and harmonies mostly do.
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