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The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

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Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#11

Post by JasonFruit »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #7
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #2

I'm always gonna be fascinated by any analyses like this - but can I just say how incredible tired I am of everything containing "music" combined with "this generation". Everyone, everyone in the industrialised world and well beyond can purchase a device smaller than their palm and listen to literal billions of songs. Noone is stopping you from only listening to "Tibet monk techno punk instrumental remixes" for the r…

What you say is true, although it misses a larger point: that even though we CAN listen to unlimited variety, since the labels control the distribution systems (radio plays, featured music, music sold in big box stores, publicity etc etc) the music they produce becomes inevitably popular. Turn on the radio, walk into Walmart, turn on the tv, watch a movie and you’re not going to hear independent Tibetan chants. You’r…

But a lot of people now don't turn on the radio or TV; the alternate channels of music discovery are becoming primary. Once there's an initial contact — and there are plenty of opportunities that aren't controlled by labels — it's increasingly frictionless to find more of what you realize that you like.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#12

Post by LocalPCGuy »

JasonFruit wrote: post #11
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true, although it misses a larger point: that even though we CAN listen to unlimited variety, since the labels control the distribution systems (radio plays, featured music, music sold in big box stores, publicity etc etc) the music they produce becomes inevitably popular. Turn on the radio, walk into Walmart, turn on the tv, watch a movie and you’re not going to hear independent Tibetan chants. You’r…

But a lot of people now don't turn on the radio or TV; the alternate channels of music discovery are becoming primary. Once there's an initial contact — and there are plenty of opportunities that aren't controlled by labels — it's increasingly frictionless to find more of what you realize that you like.

Except that services like Spotify or Pandora still rely on the labels as well. Sure, they want to get away from the labels, but that is going to take time.

https://www.recode.net/2018/4/3/17191390/spotify-plan-big-mu...

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#14

Post by chiefalchemist »

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #12
JasonFruit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a lot of people now don't turn on the radio or TV; the alternate channels of music discovery are becoming primary. Once there's an initial contact — and there are plenty of opportunities that aren't controlled by labels — it's increasingly frictionless to find more of what you realize that you like.

Except that services like Spotify or Pandora still rely on the labels as well. Sure, they want to get away from the labels, but that is going to take time. https://www.recode.net/2018/4/3/17191390/spotify-plan-big-mu...

Well, they also rely on averages, and the resulting recommendations tend to be (for me) closer to "we're certain these won't offend you." That is there's little deviation.

Yes, that works for most people. But if you're seeking new, exciting and different then those recommendations come off as dull and lifeless.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#15

Post by 21 »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #7
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #2

I'm always gonna be fascinated by any analyses like this - but can I just say how incredible tired I am of everything containing "music" combined with "this generation". Everyone, everyone in the industrialised world and well beyond can purchase a device smaller than their palm and listen to literal billions of songs. Noone is stopping you from only listening to "Tibet monk techno punk instrumental remixes" for the r…

What you say is true, although it misses a larger point: that even though we CAN listen to unlimited variety, since the labels control the distribution systems (radio plays, featured music, music sold in big box stores, publicity etc etc) the music they produce becomes inevitably popular. Turn on the radio, walk into Walmart, turn on the tv, watch a movie and you’re not going to hear independent Tibetan chants. You’r…

That's like saying that people are eating bananas and oranges and apples because there is a huge PR campaign to push them, and that this is destroying the chances for less popular fruits.

Sure, there is that, but let's not kid ourselves, those fruit are popular because they are actually preferred by a vast majority.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#16

Post by 21 »

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum.

I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song.

All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really hard to make "the sound of 2019", and this is why there are such few successful producers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/22/arts/music/diary-of-a-son...

To put it in software engineer terms, saying that "all successful modern music is computer made, recipe driven, there is no originality" it's like saying "all successful modern sites are made exactly the same, you just pick a database, a web frontend, ads to sell, a few programmers, there is no originality"

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#17

Post by creep »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #7
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #2

I'm always gonna be fascinated by any analyses like this - but can I just say how incredible tired I am of everything containing "music" combined with "this generation". Everyone, everyone in the industrialised world and well beyond can purchase a device smaller than their palm and listen to literal billions of songs. Noone is stopping you from only listening to "Tibet monk techno punk instrumental remixes" for the r…

What you say is true, although it misses a larger point: that even though we CAN listen to unlimited variety, since the labels control the distribution systems (radio plays, featured music, music sold in big box stores, publicity etc etc) the music they produce becomes inevitably popular. Turn on the radio, walk into Walmart, turn on the tv, watch a movie and you’re not going to hear independent Tibetan chants. You’r…

Additionally, I find that most of pop is quite manipulative on the emotions. Rather than complexity in the music, it goes for riffs and choruses that pull precisely on some undefinable feeling but which can be broken down into categories of Power, Sexy, Nostalgia, Hypnosis/Rapture-- by which I mean, it gives a feeling of a sort of intoxication or trance. Whether it is intentional or not, that is how I've found it to be. Nostalgia in pop is also recursive.

All music can influence emotions or state-of-mind to some degree, but the lack of complexity in pop music makes it so that this influence is the only "worth" or, perhaps more accurately, purpose of the music. There is nothing wrong with this necessarily, I am just giving another reason why pop and such might be so popular.

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#18

Post by bdjshsvajwv »

21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Except that websites are intended to be functional while songs are intended to be works of art.

Thats the problem. Why are we treating music like an industrial product? (The answer is money)

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#19

Post by mwcampbell »

> The two most similar songs from 2007 to 2011 were Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream” and Kesha’s “We R Who We R” , and they indeed sound alike.

I disagree. I just listened to both songs on Spotify, and they do not sound alike. Different keys, different vocal ranges, different voices, different instruments (or at least, different synthesized sounds). The Kesha song has more electronic effects on her voice. Kesha raps, while Katy doesn't. Really, the main similarity between the two songs is that they repeat the same chord progression through the whole song -- that's probably a consequence of what John Seabrook calls "track and hook".

Re: The Musical Diversity of Pop Songs

#20

Post by joe_the_user »

21 wrote: post #16

> A single songwriter can specialize in literally the snare-drum. I was an amateur level producer in high school. I had hundred of snare-drum samples, not to mention a lot of way to influence the sound of a particular one. Picking a good snare-drum is very important, it can totally change the character of the song. All of modern music producing it's like that, it's an extremely efficient market, it's really really ha…

Why can't both be true?

In both your examples, you can have tremendous diversity, craftsmanship and sophistication within a quite narrow range of parameters.

You could say "artistry" (bold statements, individual expression, etc) has been replaced by "design" (sophisticated choices based on following existing trends and extended them just the right amount, standing out not too much, not too little, etc).

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