I keep telling people about this and their unconcerned reactions really worry me.
what reactions did you expect?
China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
191–200 of 273 posts
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
In other news, the US, NATO and friends in this century alone destroyed Iraq, Libya, almost destroyed Syria and Yemen and did a few other nasty things that resulted in at least a million dead. Do you have a big enough item 5 for that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#193A thought experiment, from an ignorant Canadian to those Chinese who accept ethnic discrimination in national policy:
Generation(s) of Han Chinese and Uighurs get together and start having children. An act of loving subversion, if you will. At what level of mixing does the dangerous Uighur contribution become safe to you? 50%? 25%? 12.5%?
[Only somewhat tongue-in-cheek.]
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#194In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
I very much doubt it is sustainable. The cost of policing is quite substantial and the productivity lost is hard to replace which adds to the cost. What we are seeing today is essentially a low intensity conflict[0] not unlike what took place in white Rhodesia/Namibia, Northern Ireland during the troubles, etc. There is a economic reason why these conflicts could not last indefinitely, no matter what ideologies drive…
> I very much doubt it is sustainable
Autocratic regimes have lasted for as long as 3000 years (pharonic Egypt).
I'm sure lots of people want to believe the Chinese system won't work; but that doesn't make it true.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#195In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
Don't ignore the different philosophical foundation of Asian societies. Confucianism is quite different from the Western line of tradition starting from the Greeks. Confucianism emphasizes community and obedience more, which is more compatible with mass surveillance.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government.
> Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government. The 2nd Amendment specifies that a well regulated militia is necessary for a free state, and that the right to keep and bear arms cannot be abridged by the Federal government. Nothing in that amendment specifically mentions the purpose of preventing totalitarian government. That's…
The entire Bill or Rights is to prevent “misconstruction and abuse of powers”.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#197In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
> In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail.
The West has had, for the last 200 years (and arguably for the last 500) the advantage that its economic system is better than its rivals. This is a massive, game-changing advantage. But it's not obvious to me that the West is still ahead economically -- look at China's growth rates over the last 40 years. Admittedly they are coming from behind, but because of their population they only need 1/4 of the GDP per head of the USA to be ahead on total GDP.
I would say there's about a 50% possibility that China will make an authoritarianism that works, that's at least as successful economically as the West. And if that comes about it will be a real game-changer. And frankly, I don't think the West is up to the task of meeting the challenge; certainly I would not bet on Trump, Merkel, May et al doing the right thing.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gaza shows that handful can easily become most of the population if you let it get out of control. The left's deep love and devotion to a religion that oppresses their other favoured groups - gays and women - astonishes me.
Gaza is not a religion problem, it is a human right problem. Israel is scandalously denying human people living in Gaza any dignity in their living, after stealing their land and oppressing them for years. I'm sick to see how much America is getting complicit with this. and happy to see that most of Europe realizes what is really going on there.
Stop virtue signalling.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
I very much doubt it is sustainable. The cost of policing is quite substantial and the productivity lost is hard to replace which adds to the cost. What we are seeing today is essentially a low intensity conflict[0] not unlike what took place in white Rhodesia/Namibia, Northern Ireland during the troubles, etc. There is a economic reason why these conflicts could not last indefinitely, no matter what ideologies drive…
> I very much doubt it is sustainable Autocratic regimes have lasted for as long as 3000 years (pharonic Egypt). I'm sure lots of people want to believe the Chinese system won't work; but that doesn't make it true.
Ancient Egypt seems to be the exception in history. Such reliable agriculture and continued population concentration around the Nile are very peculiar situations that have no parallels elsewhere.
If Egypt was truly superior, it really should not have been so easily conquered by Ptolemy and then Rome which both had a much less authoritarian society.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#200In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
I think you overestimate the appeal of modern liberalism and the negativity of totalitarian rule.