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A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

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Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#261
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and I strongly discourage you from shooting people. There is still a large portion of the public who don't know what civil forfeiture is or why it's a bad thing. If you want to make a difference the best thing you can do right is educate people.

> I disagree He's factually correct though. I don't see how you can disagree with the fact that the supreme court already ruled these practices legal (jury), neither republicans nor democrats managed to fix the matter (ballot), and the average american showers once a day... Stories like these have been all over the news under both republican and democratic presidents and congress - nothing changed. Don't give people…

>"He's factually correct though."

It's not a fact that soap box options have been exhausted. It's merely your opinion that the soap box has been tried enough, to the point that giving up on trying to inform and persuade people is rational and/or ethical.

But... is that actually your opinion? You're here arguing online using your soap box, instead of waging a guerilla war against the system. So I think in actual fact you haven't given up on the soap box. Or at least you still see value in the soap box for purposes of inciting a rebellion?

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#262
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a common saying: "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order." Emphasis on Please use in that order. I can't believe this needs to be emphasized, but killing people should be a last resort. I'm glad these "2nd Amendment advocates" aren't as trigger happy as you seem to suggest they be. I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that shooting peo…

Technology has obsoleted all four of those boxen. Democracy went from a metric to the model, which was then economically optimized out. Now the information flow runs the other direction - the modern political apparatus efficiently distributes public opinion rather than gathering it. Our remaining hope is a newfound fifth - the personal computation box.

I disagree with your conclusion. While it's true technological advances have rendered many traditional forms of soap boxes obsolete, that means we need to develop new more capable soap boxes. But perhaps this is what you allude to with "the personal computation box"?

(And as for the ammo box, guerilla fighters have proven resourceful. Modern guerilla warfare and its relationship to technology is an interesting subject you can dive deep into. One must also keep in mind modern 'win' conditions for guerilla fighters, many of which don't look much like win conditions in traditional warfare. But I don't think our present situation will come to this.)

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can be equally used to suppress anyone with an unpopular opinion. Who is deciding what is edgy but still funny, vs what’s over the line? What is valid criticism of people who happen to be part of a minority group, vs what is hateful and racist? The only reason you are ok with this, is because all of your beliefs fall within the boundaries of acceptability set by the censors. And you want to be protected from the spee…

Receiving insults, death threats and the likes online is just "speech of people who might think or believe differently" to you, seriously?

>"insults, death threats"

There is a world of difference between these two things. To my knowledge death threats are illegal in every American state. Insulting people is generally legal, just like it should be.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Your government currently arrests people for criticizing the government online > Citation needed - I have _never_ heard of this happening. A British teenager was arrested and charged for posting on Facebook that UK soldiers should go to hell.[0] [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/201...

OK, I don't agree with that, but attacking soldiers (and saying they "should DIE & go to HELL!" is somewhat more to just saying they should go to hell) is different to criticising the government - they are NOT the government, and saying they should die is far more than criticising them. Furthermore, his final sentence is "Azhar Ahmed must do 240 hours of community service"[1]. Whilst I disagree with him being charged…

> "(and saying they "should DIE & go to HELL!" is somewhat more to just saying they should go to hell)"

Is it? It just seems redundant to me. Redundancy may be offensive, but it shouldn't be illegal!

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#265

How many 64 year olds put their life savings in carry on bags? I'm not saying the CBP is innocent, but $60K in cash in a carry on is suspicious

Suspicious, sure. But people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. You shouldn't be able to just take someone's stuff because you are "suspicious" that they got it illegally. You should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they got it illegally first.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#266
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the US offers a whole lot that other countries do not. I would disagree that the US government offers anything other governments do not. Of course, the US government has a role in the other attractive attributes the US has, but I personally think that role is exaggerated. I think the US would still be an economically dominant world power if it had the government of, say, Germany.

>> I would disagree that the US government offers anything other governments do not. You are very first-world centric, then. While I am no interventionist, you are discounting the role the US Military has worldwide on trade, peacekeeping, and other vital roles it actually does a good job at when it's not fucking things up (which is often). >> I think the US would still be an economically dominant world power if it ha…

Are you trying to suggest that the racial makeup of Germany is inferior to America? I'd say population size, geographic properties (location, climate, resources, etc) and economic history count for much more than any racial inferiority.

Germany has a population 25% as large as America, and a GDP 18% of America's. So maybe if you ignored history, geography, a potential nonlinear relationship between population and economic domination¹ you could claim this discrepancy is solely due to racial differences between the populations of America and Germany. But I'm pretty damn skeptical of that.

1: for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner-take-all_market

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can be equally used to suppress anyone with an unpopular opinion. Who is deciding what is edgy but still funny, vs what’s over the line? What is valid criticism of people who happen to be part of a minority group, vs what is hateful and racist? The only reason you are ok with this, is because all of your beliefs fall within the boundaries of acceptability set by the censors. And you want to be protected from the spee…

Receiving insults, death threats and the likes online is just "speech of people who might think or believe differently" to you, seriously?

It's also pretty funny how they respond, because, let's face facts here:

1) the US government attacks people for their opinions, and so does the UK government. Same with civil asset forfeiture. And it doesn't stop there. Treatment of immigrants/asylum seekers, military actions outside of the country, protection of corrupt officials, ...

2) People who defend the US government actions, whether related to freedom of speech or forfeiture, are described as unfairly naive or pro-state by Europeans.

3) People who criticize the UK government actions, essentially the same, except much lesser known, are unfairly criticizing their "trustworthy state". Forfeiture without recourse, check. Speech attacks. And let's just not investigate what the UK government has done to immigrants, because ...

To just take one particularly vile action taken by the UK government, which I challenge defenders to defend as "just" here's one:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/20/child-asylum-seek...

Or how about having cops deceive members of environmental groups into sex, going so far as to father children with them, then (of course) walking away. To make matters worse, the UK government decided (again, obviously) to protect the officers from normal legal responsibility requirements.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/deceived-lovers-...

Yeah, I can see why this organization doesn't want to be criticized publicly ... that's, as they say, going to go down poorly.

I don't understand this attitude in people. The US people criticize their government. This seems like a very, very good thing. Europeans, in my experience, largely have worse governments with better reputations ... They're different in various ways, although much less so in the case of the UK.

For instance, the royal house of the Netherlands has an insanely good reputation ... as long as you don't speak to people who so much as live close to them. Then they're moral abominations who constantly abuse their position in the state for utterly banal reasons (they've -literally- ordered people arrested because their children did better on a test in school than their children). And yet, fantastic reputation. But look up articles actually about them, and you will quickly realize what monsters these people are.

To judge the quality and trustworthiness of the UK police force, I encourage you to check out the exams they have officers take before entering, and realize that many officers actually fail these tests once or twice before joining. Let's just not pretend that half these people are even smart enough to know the difference between acting trustworthy and not, because that actually requires a very, very, very basic level of intelligence that clearly is not required and in many cases not present for those joining the police force.

Sometimes you can explain this through politics. For instance, US people often have a good opinion of the NHS. The NHS ! Yes, really, that NHS. WTF ? Ok, they don't charge much, true. They do seem to get accused constantly of not doing much else either and in cases ... they deserve that criticism. But OK, the US has a problem the NHS does not impose on UK'ers. So sure let's focus on the good. (Although what baffles me a bit about UK people is that they still think that something like 20 pounds or so is a lot for complex medical procedures, enough to convince many of them not to do them)

But many, many things in Europe are incredibly bad. Very little criticism, leading to good reputations which are, in quite a few cases, rather less accurate.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#268
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology has obsoleted all four of those boxen. Democracy went from a metric to the model, which was then economically optimized out. Now the information flow runs the other direction - the modern political apparatus efficiently distributes public opinion rather than gathering it. Our remaining hope is a newfound fifth - the personal computation box.

I disagree with your conclusion. While it's true technological advances have rendered many traditional forms of soap boxes obsolete, that means we need to develop new more capable soap boxes. But perhaps this is what you allude to with "the personal computation box" ? (And as for the ammo box, guerilla fighters have proven resourceful. Modern guerilla warfare and its relationship to technology is an interesting subje…

"We" just developed the most capable soap box yet - "social media". It's worsening the problem.

I expressly do not mean the computation box as a new version of soap box (ie general means for swaying opinion), but as a type of private meeting place where individuals may freely associate for their own mutually-beneficial purposes.

Guerilla warfare can only exist when there's a local consensus against an (outside) imposing military. This possibility is obviated by democracy, which guarantees that the non-military majority opinion will carry without having to shoot. It's a last defense against outside conquerors, but not domestically-grown totalitarianism.

Our modern conundrum is that opinion is being defined by mass media, and now interactive-personalized mass media (the Inception effect is powerful). The same process that has anointed this succession of hopechange-actor presidents also assures those ammo boxen are mutedly waiting for the bogeyman.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#269
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What could the US learn from Canada on asset forfeiture? Canada does it too! How to do it better? So does the UK, Australia, NZ, and many other countries. But somehow only the US has wannabe-military police rambo types doing it, to stock up their SWAT vans, machine guns and other gizmos. That does not exactly inspire confidence.

https://reporter.anu.edu.au/files/styles/anu_full_920_518/pu... Hey look, Aussie SWAT.

Not exactly just a phone call away though

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#270
post #259
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of many jobs you'd be turned away from for being too smart.

One rationalisation is that hiring someone "too smart" for the work required means that they'll soon become bored and move on, so your effort invested in training them is wasted.

This is exactly what I’ve heard the justification is.
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