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Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

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Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#71

Post by Spooky23 »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #32
ogennadi wrote: post #17

> Ultimate eventual goal: Make Tor Browser obsolete, so Tor Project can focus on research instead of maintaining a fork of Firefox.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

Likely actual result: Firefox will become increasingly irrelevant.

If Tor is going to be a built-in feature of Firefox, most employers are going to flag it as malware. This is a ridiculously dumb thing on so many levels -- promote privacy by directing your network traffic to "volunteer" proxy services?

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#72

Post by Hello71 »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #65
forapurpose wrote: post #57

What will Mozilla do about the Tor network's usability problems? Advanced users can workaround them and because they understand the benefits and engineering, accept the frustrations as a cost for a worthwhile (and free) technology. But what will non-technical users do? Many public Internet websites filter connections from the Tor network, many other websites are very slow, yet others impose extra obstacles such as mu…

Why would Mozilla do anything about that? It's not like this is going to be enabled by default in Firefox.

FTFA: Whether there will be two private browsing modes is to be determined.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#73

Post by paulie_a »

Hello71 wrote: post #70
forapurpose wrote: post #57

What will Mozilla do about the Tor network's usability problems? Advanced users can workaround them and because they understand the benefits and engineering, accept the frustrations as a cost for a worthwhile (and free) technology. But what will non-technical users do? Many public Internet websites filter connections from the Tor network, many other websites are very slow, yet others impose extra obstacles such as mu…

Which sites in 2018 still present multiple CAPTCHAs to users with cookies and JavaScript enabled? I think the theory behind this project is that those problems are primarily caused by Tor's popular image as a 'fringe network for pedophiles and drug dealers' and that by making it more mainstream they can fix those issues. (please more replies saying "that sounds really hard" and less replies saying "tor is not a fring…

Google. Which uses a really shitty custom captcha for their services.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#74

Post by Exuma »

astrodust wrote: post #47
chipperyman573 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read this article because I'm at work, but unless they managed to solve the problem of Tor being very, very, very slow, this will never happen. End users will definitely notice a difference and likely won't care about their privacy. They'll just see Firefox being way slower than Chrome and switch.

So long as Tor depends on volunteers to maintain exit nodes, and with that the risk of being arrested for all sorts of criminal activity by non-tech-savvy law enforcement, this is how it'll be.

What do you mean by this: "with that the risk of being arrested for all sorts of criminal activity by non-tech-savvy law enforcement"

You can be arrested for things just by using Tor if they mix you up with someone else or something?

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#75

Post by aseipp »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #64
chipperyman573 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read this article because I'm at work, but unless they managed to solve the problem of Tor being very, very, very slow, this will never happen. End users will definitely notice a difference and likely won't care about their privacy. They'll just see Firefox being way slower than Chrome and switch.

Tor is not that slow these days. Sometimes you get a bad circuit but you can reroute and expect speeds comparable to mobile phone networks.

Is it even worth talking about speed without at least considering client network conditions? A lot of people have poor internet connections, many places world-over are basically mobile-internet only already, shared internet spaces with variable QoS (campuses), etc etc. Most people aren't using engineer-priced laptops/workstations or backed by enterprise-grade routing equipment, after all.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#76

Post by blauditore »

forapurpose wrote: post #57

What will Mozilla do about the Tor network's usability problems? Advanced users can workaround them and because they understand the benefits and engineering, accept the frustrations as a cost for a worthwhile (and free) technology. But what will non-technical users do? Many public Internet websites filter connections from the Tor network, many other websites are very slow, yet others impose extra obstacles such as mu…

I thought this will be disabled by default, no? If so, casual users would never get in touch with it in the first place.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#77

Post by Ajedi32 »

dimator wrote: post #56
Lennie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tor will get faster, now new protocols like TLS/1.3, HTTP/2 and QUIC are being developed. Currently Tor looks like HTTPS done with TLS/1.2 on TCP (like regular HTTPS). As these newer protocols get more and more delpoyed Tor can start using them too which will help make Tor faster.

Those standards have nothing to do with Tor's speed.

Tor circuits tend to be rather high latency, so anything that reduces the number of round trips needed for page loads is likely to have a significant impact on Tor's effective speed.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#79

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

aseipp wrote: post #75
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor is not that slow these days. Sometimes you get a bad circuit but you can reroute and expect speeds comparable to mobile phone networks.

Is it even worth talking about speed without at least considering client network conditions? A lot of people have poor internet connections, many places world-over are basically mobile-internet only already, shared internet spaces with variable QoS (campuses), etc etc. Most people aren't using engineer-priced laptops/workstations or backed by enterprise-grade routing equipment, after all.

If I understand Tor correctly, last mile connectivity is not a bottleneck.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#80

Post by unimpressive »

Spooky23 wrote: post #71
ComodoHacker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

Likely actual result: Firefox will become increasingly irrelevant. If Tor is going to be a built-in feature of Firefox, most employers are going to flag it as malware. This is a ridiculously dumb thing on so many levels -- promote privacy by directing your network traffic to "volunteer" proxy services?

It's been my understanding that Firefox has been soft splitting its consumer and business versions of the product for a while. This would presumably just be another step down that road.
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