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Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

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Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#41

Post by chipperyman573 »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #32
ogennadi wrote: post #17

> Ultimate eventual goal: Make Tor Browser obsolete, so Tor Project can focus on research instead of maintaining a fork of Firefox.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

I can't read this article because I'm at work, but unless they managed to solve the problem of Tor being very, very, very slow, this will never happen. End users will definitely notice a difference and likely won't care about their privacy. They'll just see Firefox being way slower than Chrome and switch.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#42

Post by seba_dos1 »

kchr wrote: post #27
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Ive seen HSTS applied to things like Windows 10 updates, to prevent users from seeing what exactly your OS is sending to the mothership. Ideally, we should be able to see exactly the content being exfiltrated, and choose to allow/disallow. But the moment we use tools like ettercap or mitmssl, it kills the session and we can't see the data. HSTS seems more "self cutting" than useful at this juncture.

The use of HSTS is a way to suggest to your clients that they use SSL for that domain - for all requests within a time span (which could be "forever"). If anything, the vendors you mention should be applauded for taking that step towards a more secure distribution of updates. Not enforcing SSL makes malware injection through updates way way easier. Debian introduced HTTPS repos a while back as an option, but not by d…

Debian, and most other distributions as well, verifies its updates for ages and doesn't need SSL to do that. There are some arguments for using HTTPS anyway, but preventing malware injection isn't one (unless your package manager is exploitable).

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#43

Post by petra »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #32
ogennadi wrote: post #17

> Ultimate eventual goal: Make Tor Browser obsolete, so Tor Project can focus on research instead of maintaining a fork of Firefox.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

They need to solve the issue of speed, altough maybe for sensitive queries(assuming that's enough, a very big assumption,), people may be willing to use a slow "super private browsing mode". another option is to make people pay for faster speeds ?

And if i recall correctly, a "global passive attacker" listening to internet traffic around can de-anonimize TOR using ML. Seems like something that would be possible and profitable for a Google and internet infra companies.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#44

Post by sametmax »

jean- wrote: post #35
sametmax wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, now if only we could have bitorrent baked in... EDIT: I mean baked in in the browser like tor, not baked in tor. Although interesting, it's really not my priority.

Firefox recently whitelisted a bunch of p2p protocols so that they can be used by browser extensions. One of them is the Dat protocol [0], which is similar to BitTorrent but has better support for mutable data and random access [1]. It's far from being "baked in", but it's a step in the right direction. [0]: https://docs.datproject.org/ [1]: https://docs.datproject.org/faq#dat-vs

We always could do that with extensions since JS is turing complete and has access to the network. Webtorrent is a thing after all.

The issue is not technical. It's just a chicken and egg problem. Most won't use bittorent unless it's stupidely easy to do. Remember that the average user don't know what an URL is and doesn't open new tabs willingly. Since they are the majority, they drive cost and benefits, so we must include them.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#45

Post by sametmax »

zdkl wrote: post #36
sametmax wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, now if only we could have bitorrent baked in... EDIT: I mean baked in in the browser like tor, not baked in tor. Although interesting, it's really not my priority.

Hey Sametmax, big fan of your site. Apart from the existing ecosystem of content, are their any reasons you want BitTorrent over ipfs? Everyone on tor AND ipfs... Now that would be something.

Thanks :)

I think IFPS needs a little more field testing before being set in stone. Indeed, if you bake in something in the browsers, then those implementation will be the boundary of what is practical to do. So any innovation will then be constraint by the browsers release and good will.

IFPS is a young tech, it needs time to evolve yet.

Tor and bittorrent are now quite mature.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#46

Post by Rjevski »

kleiba wrote: post #30
sametmax wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, now if only we could have bitorrent baked in... EDIT: I mean baked in in the browser like tor, not baked in tor. Although interesting, it's really not my priority.

Honest question: is bittorrent even still a thing?

If my movie library is of any indication, yes it’s definitely still a thing.

(And before you say anything, I do pay for Netflix and have video included in my Amazon Prime membership - none of which had those movies)

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#47

Post by astrodust »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #41
ComodoHacker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

I can't read this article because I'm at work, but unless they managed to solve the problem of Tor being very, very, very slow, this will never happen. End users will definitely notice a difference and likely won't care about their privacy. They'll just see Firefox being way slower than Chrome and switch.

So long as Tor depends on volunteers to maintain exit nodes, and with that the risk of being arrested for all sorts of criminal activity by non-tech-savvy law enforcement, this is how it'll be.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#48

Post by tempodox »

sametmax wrote: post #26
ogennadi wrote: post #17

> Ultimate eventual goal: Make Tor Browser obsolete, so Tor Project can focus on research instead of maintaining a fork of Firefox.

Good, now if only we could have bitorrent baked in... EDIT: I mean baked in in the browser like tor, not baked in tor. Although interesting, it's really not my priority.

Nope, I wouldn't want to have to keep the browser open all the time just because I'm downloading a torrent.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#49

Post by gsnedders »

ungzd wrote: post #40
sametmax wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, now if only we could have bitorrent baked in... EDIT: I mean baked in in the browser like tor, not baked in tor. Although interesting, it's really not my priority.

Opera had built-in Bittorrent (this feature is now removed, probably after Opera became rebranded version of Chromium).

Well, removed insofar as it was never reimplemented when the browser UI was rewritten from scratch, but yes.

Re: Mozilla Project Fusion: Tor Integration into Firefox

#50

Post by Lennie »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #41
ComodoHacker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimatest super-goal: make anonymity the default stance and socially accepted norm. Do with anonymous browsing what WhatsApp did with E2E encryption. Force big data suckers to invent new business models for exploiting our data without breaching our privacy.

I can't read this article because I'm at work, but unless they managed to solve the problem of Tor being very, very, very slow, this will never happen. End users will definitely notice a difference and likely won't care about their privacy. They'll just see Firefox being way slower than Chrome and switch.

I think Tor will get faster, now new protocols like TLS/1.3, HTTP/2 and QUIC are being developed.

Currently Tor looks like HTTPS done with TLS/1.2 on TCP (like regular HTTPS). As these newer protocols get more and more delpoyed Tor can start using them too which will help make Tor faster.

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