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How to get rich without getting lucky

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Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#141

Post by zeth___ »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #106
zeth___ wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change jobs every 6 months or less, insist on a raise between each one. I'm earning just shy of 300k now. I don't see it stopping in the next decade either.

There is an inverse relationship between salary and the number of jobs available at that rate. I think you will find it harder to continue raising your income just by job hopping. You’re going to need to demonstrate you can deliver increasingly higher value to organizations in order to demand higher wages.

Thanks for the advice. How many new jobs have you taken in the last three years?

I've had 8.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#142

Post by tylerhou »

lustig wrote: post #128
tylerhou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, probably more accurately, mathematicians borrowed the analogy of space to describe sets.

This was funny! I recognize these conflicting views. The first is the view that math is a fundamental force governing nature. The second is that math is simply a way to describe the forces of nature. I tend to agree with the second view and are often dragged into arguments which has the roots in this difference of viewpoints.

I'm not sure if either of your arguments applies in this case; the argument I was trying to make is that the colloquial usage of the word "space" predates the mathematical usage, so claiming that the word "space" in a colloquial context comes from the mathematical context is inaccurate. (This is a purely historical argument and not one of philosophy.)

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#143

Post by zer0faith »

Money is dumb but it is a necessity to move forward in life. Without it we can't provide for our family, possibly not have a family or have the basic every day needs. We become bound to this society that is so focused on money and status that we forget about the little things. Little things like memories, friends who are always there, pride in something you've created, or things you feel at your core. Those things are true wealth and not "having assets that earn while you sleep".

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#144

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

charlesdm wrote: post #102
jerguismi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live in country which has generous welfare system (scandinavian countries). Here I think people have all the basic needs pretty much covered. You can only get your things messed up if you get hooked up on drugs or alcohol. Though to me living here it seems that people are still all the time complaining and demanding more and more, though we have more safety nets than about any other place on earth.

This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion. It might not be the popular opinion on HN, but I would hate that. Make sure to structure things properly from the beginning so that you can leave when appropriate.

> This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion.

Ok, but if I'm already living the life I want to live... who cares?

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#145

Post by executesorder66 »

imgabe wrote: post #140
executesorder66 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some would argue that if you make a profit from it, then yes it is unethical. If worker A makes product P, and you sell product P for $1000. And then you pay worker A $800 for the work, you make $200 profit. Worker A did $1000 worth of work, but only got paid $800. You did $0 worth of work (with regards to actually making P) but you got $200. Hence it is unethical.

That is assuming the raw materials cost $0 and there is no value to assuming the risk of the sales price. If you pay the worker $800, but it turns out the market only values the widget at $500, does the worker return the difference? Usually not. If you are not providing any value, why is the worker not just cutting you out of the deal and making and selling widgets directly?

> That is assuming the raw materials cost $0 and there is no value to assuming the risk of the sales price.

Yes, it was a very simplified model.

> If you pay the worker $800, but it turns out the market only values the widget at $500, does the worker return the difference? Usually not.

In that case the worker is the one being unethical.

> If you are not providing any value, why is the worker not just cutting you out of the deal and making and selling widgets directly?

Each person involved in making the product and getting it to the customer: marketing, distribution etc. would need to get paid their share of their contribution.

I guess my example was too simplistic, but that's simplest way I could make the point.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#146

Post by ataturk »

"Pick an industry where you can play long term games with long term people."

Show me an industry not already over-saturated with rent seekers?

"You’re not going to get rich renting out your time. You must own equity - a piece of a business - to gain your financial freedom."

Okay, but this is essentially what having a job means, it's just not the same kind of "equity" as the owners have, which is the basis for the age-old struggle between owners and labor.

I don't know how it looks in the part of the world where the author lives, but in my part of the world, the "booming economy" doesn't seem so booming. I don't really think the developer job market is even that hot in the midwest, and although I have plenty of capital, going out on my own to do _something_ seems like a great way to just end up broke. I thus have no way of applying what resources I have to anything that is going to build more. I'm thinking of leaving software development completely because of it. I just think the world of "write code, make bucks" is saturated in kind of the same way that the market for any electronic gadget is completely saturated.

And I beat myself up over this every day: "Why am I not succeeding with such great resources at hand? Am I just a really shitty entrepreneur?" Perhaps.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#147

Post by lustig »

jerguismi wrote: post #70
adrianN wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips on getting security+free time without becoming rich first?

Live in country which has generous welfare system (scandinavian countries). Here I think people have all the basic needs pretty much covered. You can only get your things messed up if you get hooked up on drugs or alcohol. Though to me living here it seems that people are still all the time complaining and demanding more and more, though we have more safety nets than about any other place on earth.

Not sure I'm reading you right, but here are my two cents.

Also living in Scandinavia and I would disagree with this advice. To be dependent on the welfare system is not exactly being free and have security.

Like the Swedish Prime Minister Göran Persson said: "One who is in debt is not free".

And living off of the welfare system is in my view to be indebted to society. I would not be able to shake that feeling if I was, at least not if it was voluntarily. Add to that the social stigma, even from close friends and family. This would limit your freedom of having an agency in social interactions.

Also I would not consider it secure, since the rules of the welfare system changes quite a lot over time. Which you have no way of impacting, meaning you are dependent and not free.

EDIT: Just realized the question was about "security+free time". I guess you would have free time, which is not exactly the same as being free in any meaningful sense.

EDIT: Not sure why I'm being downvoted. But for clarification I can add that I think this applies if you voluntarily would live off of the welfare system, thus leeching from the ones who really needs it. It's of course a totally different story if you are involuntarily need to get welfare to survive and live a decent life.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#149

Post by systemtest »

pc86 wrote: post #120
whatshisface wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a list of reasons that "enlightened" (i.e. not scrooge) people would want to be rich: - The ability to secure the best medical care for yourself and your family in a country where this takes money to do. - The ability to walk away from abusive employment relationships without a second thought or any stress. - The ability to engage in high-level economic actions, the kind that aren't designed for your failure.…

Assuming that "rich" means "don't need to work at all, for the rest of your life, to keep a roof over your head and food on your table," none of what you listed require being rich. > The ability to secure the best medical care for yourself and your family in a country where this takes money to do. I can only speak to the US but this is much more an insurance issue than a wealth issue. When I made $30k a year I had a…

If you child gets a serious disease, can you take a year off from work to comfort him/her and give the best possible assistance in recovery? Can you take your child to private facilities that have individual rooms and private tutoring so they don't miss out on education? If the best possible treatment with a high success rate and a low-impact recovery is in Sweden, can you arrange medical transport on a plane to get your child there?

Insurance is just to cover not dying. Being rich makes it a comfortable experience.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#150

Post by s-shellfish »

zer0faith wrote: post #143

Money is dumb but it is a necessity to move forward in life. Without it we can't provide for our family, possibly not have a family or have the basic every day needs. We become bound to this society that is so focused on money and status that we forget about the little things. Little things like memories, friends who are always there, pride in something you've created, or things you feel at your core. Those things ar…

Being poor reminds me of PTSD honestly, though. You get caught up with wealth and status because every new decision brings you back to a past where your existence was chaotic. It's like the chaos of the past maps onto how you interpret the present. Reminders are everywhere in culture, and I think people get caught up in these games of dominance because the experience of poverty is traumatizing. Even if everything in your life is perfect and functioning optimally, there's still that fear - can't delete memories, and honestly, I think that's the primary motivator for those who hoard wealth in a completely unreasonable, counterproductive fashion. Tragedy and anger, these things push us in directions we do not have perfect control over. These things are hard to heal from, but it can be done.
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