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How to get rich without getting lucky

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Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips on getting security+free time without becoming rich first?

Depends on your definition of those two things. Many people in developing countries have less than $1,000 in monetary/material assets, but have plenty of free time and a decent level of security. They may not have the nicest house in the nicest location (a tin or concrete square box on a dirt road in a rural location with no jobs), but they are not in any immediate danger in terms of crime or disease. Another way to…

> Many people in developing countries have less than $1,000 in monetary/material assets, but have plenty of free time and a decent level of security.

As someone with fairly deep knowledge about such a country, many poorer people tend to have no security when they get older or if they get a severe accident. On average, they have little or no savings and often significant debt. Having kids is their insurance against the future, but it is like playing roulette since many/most young people do not earn enough to support their parents (or even live comfortably themselves).

If they wish to raise their kids well, while not having much education themselves, they need to work really hard, not unlike two- or three-jobbers in the States. Otherwise, their kids will have bad education and often need to work minimum wage or only a bit better as an adult.

Free time, yes but only for those who don't prepare much for the future. Security, not really.

(Check out statistics of working hours in developing vs developed countries. People in developing countries often work harder and earn less even in PPP terms.)

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can create software/automation system that works/creates value for users. As a creator, you can ethically derive wealth from that value even when you are asleep. Added as part of a reply: Certain systems create value in excess of individual components you put into it. (That system may include a variety of resources that you pay market costs for, not only just your personal labor.) The creator of the system can ea…

technically, yes, but you had to work to create it, and probably have to continue to work to maintain it in the face of competition. If you have created some kind of lock-in which allows you to extract rent indefinitely from some initial effort, then you have some degree of monopoly, which would be ethically questionable.

"Earn while you sleep" does not mean "conjure from thin air and then earn perpetually". It just means creating a system that decouples time spent working from amount of money received. As opposed to a job, where they are tightly coupled.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you have to eat, don't you?

Exactly. So why criticise people for spending money on consumption when they need it to stay alive.

The vast majority of Americans aren’t being held back from building wealth because of their spending on essential food. Americans actually spend a smaller percentage of their income on food than many developed countries.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#94

Is Naval rich? I think the most valuable advice in getting rich is from people who are moderately rich. Advice from people who aren’t rich is stupid. Advice from billionaires seems irrelevant because their circumstances are so exceptional. How did the friend of a friend make $20million ... there’s an interesting question. I could give you advice on how to not get rich.... just make what are in hindsight a constant fl…

My guess: looking at his investment track record, Naval is probably quite rich (8-9 figures) and he spends a lot of his time dealing with other pretty rich people, both successful founders and other rich investors. Just a guess though.

Edit: https://angel.co/naval

Investor in Uber, Twitter, Postmates, Yammer, and about 60 others. Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a fraction of the total. Not to mention cofounding AngelList. I doubt he’s scraping by :)

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#96

Is Naval rich? I think the most valuable advice in getting rich is from people who are moderately rich. Advice from people who aren’t rich is stupid. Advice from billionaires seems irrelevant because their circumstances are so exceptional. How did the friend of a friend make $20million ... there’s an interesting question. I could give you advice on how to not get rich.... just make what are in hindsight a constant fl…

We are just helping out our fellow millionaire friends, by reallocating wealth to them. :)

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#97
I got rich in Silicon Valley from my equity compensation. I bounced around various companies and startups. Two of them were successful and had public offerings. Of those two, one was spectacularly successful.

Sure, luck played a role. But my pure grit and tenacity also played a role. Taking on hard bugs and solving them played a role: I solved a lot of hard bugs that others couldn't solve. Spending Saturday afternoons at the library reading books on topics like software program management and phase locked loops played a role. Having some talent at hiring and managing people helped. Spending my teenage years writing clever little programs in 6502 assembly language on my Commodore 64 instead of smoking weed and partying helped. Having a strong knack for math and computer science helped. Living simply and reinvesting my profits helped.

In my 20s, I couldn't understand why people at my same wealth level in Silicon Valley were often driving $100K cars and engaging in other types of ostentatious spending displays. I was constantly surprised by the people making lots of money who didn't really have any clue how money works. Wall Street has its own game to separate you from your wealth, and they'll do it if you don't understand how the Warren Buffets of the world value equities and read balance sheets.

You have to get up and out and play the game to win. If you play, you'll lose a lot of games. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. There is a secret message embedded in every failure. Figure out the message, get up and go at it again. Sometimes, you'll suffer a humiliating failure a few more times before you get the lesson.

Of course, someone who is too lazy to go play the game will ascribe success to "luck." And the person who just can't "get" the secret messages embedded in their failures will ascribe success to "luck."

I've been dirt poor. For a whole year at the university, I slept on a camping pad on the floor because I couldn't even afford a real mattress, much less a bed. I've also been middle class, and now I'm rich. It's clear that being rich is better than being middle class, and being middle class is better than being poor, but being rich has its own problems. Even if you don't advertise your wealth, malicious actors smell it on you and try to separate you from it. Rich people sometimes say things like, "My only real friends are the ones who were my friends before I got rich." I get that mindset completely.

Money lubricates a lot of things in life, but it doesn't completely solve very many issues. The one single thing that I appreciate the most about money is that I'm no longer obliged to sell my own time just to survive. I spent my afternoon today, a weekday, taking a walk in the park, meeting a friend for a late lunch, going to the gym and then reading a book. In my previous life, I would have been stuck at work and wouldn't have done any of those things.

I read through the list and agreed with every item. Some are very broad, and I'd add some caveats if I were discussing them in detail. The one that made me think the hardest was "Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by attacking people playing wealth creation games." That's true, but sizing people up and figuring out what "game" they're playing is part of being successful.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#98

I’m going to take a contrarian view and say: figure out why you want to be rich, first. For most people, money is a proxy for respect, status, power, security, social skills, romantic attraction from others, free time, or otherwise. If you can ignore the constant “only rich people are meaningful human beings” message that is blared 24/7 from western culture, you might find that it’s easier to just go after what you w…

I read the article as pro-wealth, not pro-money. The author says that wealth is ownership of assets that generate money while you sleep. Ultimately, I see wealth as freedom of time. But there are two other big categories of wealth: health and social network. If you have FU money but also brain cancer or live on a planet by yourself, the money doesn’t mean much.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#99

I’m going to take a contrarian view and say: figure out why you want to be rich, first. For most people, money is a proxy for respect, status, power, security, social skills, romantic attraction from others, free time, or otherwise. If you can ignore the constant “only rich people are meaningful human beings” message that is blared 24/7 from western culture, you might find that it’s easier to just go after what you w…

Here is a list of reasons that "enlightened" (i.e. not scrooge) people would want to be rich:

- The ability to secure the best medical care for yourself and your family in a country where this takes money to do.

- The ability to walk away from abusive employment relationships without a second thought or any stress.

- The ability to engage in high-level economic actions, the kind that aren't designed for your failure. (Buying a few franchises vs. buying a payday loan)

- The ability to, fundamentally, own yourself instead of being forced to act according to the interests of people with the money to pay you. Maybe you'll use that time to act in the interests of people who can't pay you.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of those two things. Many people in developing countries have less than $1,000 in monetary/material assets, but have plenty of free time and a decent level of security. They may not have the nicest house in the nicest location (a tin or concrete square box on a dirt road in a rural location with no jobs), but they are not in any immediate danger in terms of crime or disease. Another way to…

> Many people in developing countries have less than $1,000 in monetary/material assets, but have plenty of free time and a decent level of security. As someone with fairly deep knowledge about such a country, many poorer people tend to have no security when they get older or if they get a severe accident. On average, they have little or no savings and often significant debt. Having kids is their insurance against th…

Online jobs are increasing at a very rapid pace and people in developing countries will have more and more opportunities to make real wages without injuring themselves.

I spent many months in developing countries too, and I currently live in the USA in my car on like $7,000 a year all in.

Btw, US salaries are dropping/leveling off because of all the increasing work that is able to be performed abroad. I applaud this :)

And as for having kids as an insurance policy for an accident, my gf and I have already decided that we would never subject someone to such imprisonment. We escaped similar situations ourselves, where our parents feel like they own us because they birthed us.

Die when you die; when you die, you're gonna die

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