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Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

theprovince.com

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Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#31

Post by john00088876 »

jimmytucson wrote: post #13

Is Trump’s point that the prices of these goods abroad are artificially low, so he’s going to implement tariffs to correct for that? If so, do counter-tariffs strengthen this argument? This would seem to create an infinite protectionist feedback loop.

His stated goal seems to be related to “bringing back American jobs” but it’s really all marketing for himself as usual since while this action will cause more American job loses than it creates, that doesn’t actually matter because it’s just about optics.

Also the authority he invokes is specifically for national security so increasing jobs or any other non national security reason shouldn’t even be a factor. His comments that it’s a negotiating tactic also prove there’s no actual national security rationale.

“...the Trump administration promised its voters more big action on trade. Further WTO challenges could take years, so to make policy more quickly, Trump invoked section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962, which grants the US the ability to impose trade restrictions in the name of national security.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1221853/donald-trumps-ta...

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#32

Post by make3 »

mabbo wrote: post #28
huangc10 wrote: post #4

Even though this decision may potentially affect my TN status in the states and more importantly will result in negative consequences for both countries, I am 100% behind Trudeau on this.

If NAFTA talks don't work out, folks like you and me with our TNs are actually going to start worrying about how we're going to keep our jobs. And here I thought Canada wasn't one of Trump's "shithole countries".

anyone who can't or definitely won't vote for him is likely part of the shithole

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#33

Post by jcranmer »

s2g wrote: post #27
wwweston wrote: post #5

Opinion: Trade sanctions against America won’t work. Sanctioning Trump himself might. https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/trade-sanctions-against-amer...

That sounds a whole lot more like a national security issue than the tariffs. Could also use tariffs to try and hit the states that voted for Trump the hardest.

Well, not so much states that voted for Trump, but small-population states that rack up lots of Senate votes. Put punitive tariffs on corn, soybean, and pork exports, and you'll have a dozen senators imploring Trump to back off.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#34

Post by dominotw »

jimmytucson wrote: post #13

Is Trump’s point that the prices of these goods abroad are artificially low, so he’s going to implement tariffs to correct for that? If so, do counter-tariffs strengthen this argument? This would seem to create an infinite protectionist feedback loop.

There was an episode on planet money about precisely this with sugar tarrifs and how it had unintended consequences on the candy industy which had to move overseas. Very complicated topic.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#35

Post by dharness »

huangc10 wrote: post #4

Even though this decision may potentially affect my TN status in the states and more importantly will result in negative consequences for both countries, I am 100% behind Trudeau on this.

I'm in the same situation, and I agree. On some level it could be good for Canada to have all the TN folks back. Maybe bad for us in the short term, but the effects could ripple.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#36

Post by Amygaz »

aldoushuxley001 wrote: post #9
petermcneeley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's dairy industry has had a long history of protection. It is likely that this industry would not exist without this protection.

It's true, the dairy farmers here in Canada act like an full fledged mafia

So does the US. The vast majority of dairy farmers receive subsidies or they would not be "profitable", averaging $280 million per year over the past 20 years (some year it's $10M, while another its $1B). Everyday we dump over 250,000 gallons of milk. There is a reason why milk is cheaper in the US than Canada.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#37

Post by s2g »

parvenu74 wrote: post #11

Can anyone point to an historical case study where protective tariffs resulted in a better economic or social outcome? I can’t help but recall the saying: “When goods don’t cross borders, soldiers soon will.” Not that I think the United States is going to war with Canada, but the (German-dominated) EU and China are less certain.

Canada has been arguing with the US about dairy for a while. Protecting that industry, you could argue, actually is a national security issue and tariffs are needed because of the massive production of the US.

IIRC haiti allowed tariff free dairy and now pretty much don't have that industry anymore.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#38

Post by s2g »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #8
mozumder wrote: post #2

Tariffs, and protectionism, are such an extreme measure. It should only be used against countries that you're going to war with. They should never be used in the course of normal trade. America is like 50 countries with open border & free trade policy between them. Can you imagine what would happen if states decided to impose tariffs on each other?

Not quite. When 2 nations are each protective, it's bad for both. If they are both open, it's generally good for both. But - if one protects in a sneaky way, and the other is open - the it's amazing for the protectionist country. So nations strive to be 'open' but then to sneak in stuff, or rather, sometimes they are open, but really are not. It's impossible for American companies to sell into Japan for many reasons,…

> but it also keeps Can/Mex standard of living lower in many ways.

I'm curious what ways you would argue Canada has a significantly lower standard of living.

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#39

Post by mastazi »

parvenu74 wrote: post #11

Can anyone point to an historical case study where protective tariffs resulted in a better economic or social outcome? I can’t help but recall the saying: “When goods don’t cross borders, soldiers soon will.” Not that I think the United States is going to war with Canada, but the (German-dominated) EU and China are less certain.

Tariffs on corn prompted a guy called James Wilson to create The Economist, of course you may or may not regard that as a positive outcome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist#History

Re: Canada hits back at 'punitive' U.S. tariffs in 'turning point' in relations

#40

Post by craftyguy »

wwweston wrote: post #5

Opinion: Trade sanctions against America won’t work. Sanctioning Trump himself might. https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/trade-sanctions-against-amer...

That's exactly what the US does to folks (e.g. Putin's friends) when they do stupid, I'm surprised that no nations have considered doing the same with Donald and his friends/family.
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