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Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

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Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#71

Post by tjr225 »

rukittenme wrote: post #33
tjr225 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it right here. A safety net(including healthcare, education, retirement) intended for all would be an awesome way to spend all of this money, but instead it gets squandered elsewhere.

Where does it get squandered? 60% of the federal budget goes to retirement and healthcare. That doesn't account for all of the local budgets which almost exclusively target human welfare projects. There are only two stereotypical places I can think of it being "squandered". The first is the military which, who knows, could be NPV if you consider what the world could be like without it. Ultimately its unknowable. The…

I absolutely believe our money is being squandered on a military industrial complex that is a net negative on the entire planet. I also believe that we need more progressive taxes, and to sit here and pretend that capitalism is flawless is simplistic and a waste of time.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#72

Post by pluto9 »

maxerickson wrote: post #67
pluto9 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, life sucks when you're poor. More so in many of these countries than in the U.S, and less so in a few. You've said nothing. Every country has economic strata. Pointing it out only in the case of the U.S. is specious.

Well no, pointing out that the US strata are unusually and unnecessarily capricious isn't specious. The US is a rich country and the lack of resources for people at the bottom is more likely to be arbitrary than it is to be contributing to that wealth.

It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#73

Post by sizzzzlerz »

freeopinion wrote: post #62
bane wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California...and the West Coast of the U.S. is an interesting place in that it's geographically divided from the rest of the country by a couple of major mountain ranges and large deserts. In addition, something like almost 50% of the state is unusable federal land (national parks, military bases, etc.) Despite this, it's one of the major agricultural producers in the world due to it's variety of climate zones and lo…

> cross-Pacific trade isn't as big as cross-Atlantic Huh? Newport Beach is the busiest port in the world. Cross-Pacific trade dwarfs cross-Atlantic trade.

Where'd you find that? I googled for busiest ports and found LA is the 17th and Long Beach the 21st busiest in the world. And they are totally dwarfed by Shanghai and Singapore.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#74

Post by mhandley »

rayiner wrote: post #57
mhandley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That shows the power of immigration. I'm not even talking about immigration from outside the US, though that's significant too. California has such high GDP per capita because it draws well educated people from the rest of the US. If it was an independent country, it couldn't do that so easily.

No it doesn't. California is 8th in terms of GDP per capita within the U.S. If you look at the list of states that are within +/- 10% of California's GDP per capita, you've New York and Massachusetts (which are suffering from out-migration), and Colorado, Nebraska, and Minnesota (none of which are major targets of internal or external immigration).

While your data are no doubt correct, this doesn't stop it being true for California. Just because a state is now suffering from out-migration doesn't indicate it didn't become wealthy from migration in the past, nor does it indicate it is getting poorer now due to that out-migration. To know that, you'd have to measure the economic contribution of the people moving in and of the people leaving. It is possible for the GDP per capita to increase and simultaneously for the population to decrease slowly.

Would be interesting to know where the wealth comes from in Colorado, Nebraska and Minnesota. I don't know enough about them to comment.

Edit: some data here: https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/31/california-migration-c...

"The top relocation motivation for 65 percent of households arriving by van said they came to California for jobs. Only 43 percent of those departing by moving van described the move was work-related.

The jobs rush means your new neighbors are likely wealthier than the people they replaced. United’s study showed 68 percent of arriving households make $100,000 or more annually; just 63 percent of those departing by moving van make above that threshold."

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#75

Post by confuseddesi »

freeopinion wrote: post #62
bane wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California...and the West Coast of the U.S. is an interesting place in that it's geographically divided from the rest of the country by a couple of major mountain ranges and large deserts. In addition, something like almost 50% of the state is unusable federal land (national parks, military bases, etc.) Despite this, it's one of the major agricultural producers in the world due to it's variety of climate zones and lo…

> cross-Pacific trade isn't as big as cross-Atlantic Huh? Newport Beach is the busiest port in the world. Cross-Pacific trade dwarfs cross-Atlantic trade.

You mean Long Beach, right?

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#76

Post by rukittenme »

jessaustin wrote: post #56
rukittenme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it get squandered? 60% of the federal budget goes to retirement and healthcare. That doesn't account for all of the local budgets which almost exclusively target human welfare projects. There are only two stereotypical places I can think of it being "squandered". The first is the military which, who knows, could be NPV if you consider what the world could be like without it. Ultimately its unknowable. The…

Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting... ...haha what was I thinking never mind. Also what does net present value have to do with any of this?

> Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting...

Hah! I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion on it. Only that you can't know the world that "could have been".

> Also what does net present value have to do with any of this?

Squander is a word which means to waste. If a government project has a net economic (or public health) benefit then by definition the money was not squandered.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#77

Post by reaperducer »

freeopinion wrote: post #62
bane wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California...and the West Coast of the U.S. is an interesting place in that it's geographically divided from the rest of the country by a couple of major mountain ranges and large deserts. In addition, something like almost 50% of the state is unusable federal land (national parks, military bases, etc.) Despite this, it's one of the major agricultural producers in the world due to it's variety of climate zones and lo…

> cross-Pacific trade isn't as big as cross-Atlantic Huh? Newport Beach is the busiest port in the world. Cross-Pacific trade dwarfs cross-Atlantic trade.

>Huh? Newport Beach is the busiest port in the world. Cross-Pacific trade dwarfs cross-Atlantic trade.

Huh? Newport Beach? If you mean the Port of Los Angeles, which is next to Long Beach, but is actually in San Pedro, you're not even close. It's not even the busiest in America.

Measured by tonnage: Busiest port in the world is Ningbo-Zhoushan, China. Busiest American port is South Louisiana (#14 worldwide).[0]

Measured by containers: Busiest port in the world is Shanghai, China. Busiest American port is Los Angeles (#17 worldwide).[1]

Measured by transshipments: Busiest port in the world is Singapore. Busiest American port is Los Angeles (#17 worldwide).[2]

[0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo...

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_port...

[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_transshipment_...

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#78

Post by snowwrestler »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #40

The article lists Russia as the US's "nemesis". "Competitor" or even "enemy" would have been an appropriate designation, but "nemesis" means retribution, justice, or vengeance. Exactly whom is seeking retribution against whom, and for what? Since the birth of the nation, Russia supported the US. It supported its revolution and supported the Union during the civil war. It even sold Alaska to the US. We brokered the en…

I think it was a sarcastic reference, which is why they chose such a strong word.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#79

Post by rayiner »

mhandley wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. California is 8th in terms of GDP per capita within the U.S. If you look at the list of states that are within +/- 10% of California's GDP per capita, you've New York and Massachusetts (which are suffering from out-migration), and Colorado, Nebraska, and Minnesota (none of which are major targets of internal or external immigration).

While your data are no doubt correct, this doesn't stop it being true for California. Just because a state is now suffering from out-migration doesn't indicate it didn't become wealthy from migration in the past, nor does it indicate it is getting poorer now due to that out-migration. To know that, you'd have to measure the economic contribution of the people moving in and of the people leaving. It is possible for th…

OP made the assertion, they've got the burden of providing data in support of it. I'm just explaining that the data he did offer doesn't support his conclusion.

Wealth in Colorado, Minnesota, etc., comes from the same place as anywhere else. The U.S. is a rich country with lots of productive industries. Tech is actually a pretty small portion of that (5-6% of GDP, 3% of employment). E.g. Target is based in Minnesota, and has double the revenues of Facebook.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#80

Post by lolsal »

lexs wrote: post #44
pluto9 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to…

oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo

Are you intending to add anything to the discussion or was your comment accidentally not contributing anything?
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