Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs • Hacker News Board

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#41

Post by alehul » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:04 PM UTC

curiousgal wrote: post #23

pluto9 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? I've been to both Iraq and Oklahoma, and I can tell you the quality of life in Oklahoma is a hell of a lot better than Iraq, pre- or post-war, in spite of their similar GDPs.

Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.

As a Swede living in the United States, I can agree that the average person has a higher quality of life in Scandinavia! I don't think it's possible to have that in the States, though; the country doesn't seem meant for it.

The Scandinavian model relies on many incompatible tenets that could be mentioned, including but not limited to immigration. The Swedish system is already practically collapsing from its first major influx of immigrants ever.

If we want a country in which everyone is welcome, it can't be a country in which we offer a fantastic quality of life automatically through living there. I mean, not until we have some post-scarcity economy, at least.

Another issue is that maybe part of the States' success is related to having more income to yourself, to spend at your discretion after taxes, rather than it being spent for you by the government. It inspires a lot of immigration from people with big ideas, and that could easily change if the U.S. surpasses other countries in taxes.

I think there are models the U.S. should adopt from Scandinavia, however they're smaller in scope and address efficiency with tax money. One example is that all your income tax goes to the local government up until a certain point (~65,000 USD?), and it's redistributed at that level, rather than being siphoned through so many levels of bureaucracy like in the States. It's funny, while being the polar opposite of the U.S. and its conservative values, Sweden still manages a smaller federal government!

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#42

Post by pluto9 » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

verelo wrote: post #37

pluto9 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? I've been to both Iraq and Oklahoma, and I can tell you the quality of life in Oklahoma is a hell of a lot better than Iraq, pre- or post-war, in spite of their similar GDPs.

And I've been to Ukraine and Detroit. Statements like this need larger samples to be useful.

Detroit is a mess, but the gap between it and Ukraine is not remotely comparable to that between Iraq and Oklahoma.

And obviously single examples are not representative of the whole, but they're far more useful than GP's blanket assertion which is based on nothing other than, I suspect, the fact that it's currently edgy/fashionable to whinge about all the "free" things Europeans get that Americans don't.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#43

Post by hetman » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #40

The article lists Russia as the US's "nemesis". "Competitor" or even "enemy" would have been an appropriate designation, but "nemesis" means retribution, justice, or vengeance. Exactly whom is seeking retribution against whom, and for what? Since the birth of the nation, Russia supported the US. It supported its revolution and supported the Union during the civil war. It even sold Alaska to the US. We brokered the en…

Weird, I've never come across this usage of the word "nemesis" (although the dictionary indicates it is correct). Still, I think the author would have been using the more common meaning of the word "nemesis" as a rival one can not defeat (or even in more dilute usage, simply a long standing rival).

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#44

Post by lexs » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

pluto9 wrote: post #32

curiousgal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.

I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to…

oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#45

Post by maxerickson » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

pluto9 wrote: post #32

curiousgal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.

I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to…

It comes down to how you measure. People doing well have a high quality of life in pretty much the entire United States. People at the bottom, less so.

The US does have an awful lot of support for people, but our society is also hostile to poor people and we have awful workplace regulation for low quality jobs.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#46

Post by pluto9 » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #38

pluto9 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? I've been to both Iraq and Oklahoma, and I can tell you the quality of life in Oklahoma is a hell of a lot better than Iraq, pre- or post-war, in spite of their similar GDPs.

Which war? Iraq was quite a nice place to live before the Iran-Iraq War, First Gulf War, embargo, and Second Gulf War.

I was talking about the one that's been going on since 2003, but take your pick. I don't need to have been to Iraq before that to know that a very large fraction of Iraqis live in mud houses with no air conditioning, running water, or sewer systems, and always have. The reason those things are missing is not because American troops stole your air conditioners. It's because the average Iraqi doesn't have a standard of living adequate to afford them.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#47

Post by skratlo » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

danielvf wrote: post #14

From the original article and chart (not the current linked site): > "California has a labor force of 19.3 million compared to the labor force in the UK of 33.8 million (World Bank data here). Amazingly, it required a labor force 75% larger (and 14.5 million more people) in the UK to produce the same economic output last year as California! ... Further, California as a separate country would have been the 5th largest…

> Amazingly, it required a labor force 75% larger (and 14.5 million more people) in the UK to produce the same economic output

Look at it the other way, the UK can house & feed more people with the same economic output, therefore being more efficient at those tasks.

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#48

Post by bane » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #34

danielvf wrote: post #14

From the original article and chart (not the current linked site): > "California has a labor force of 19.3 million compared to the labor force in the UK of 33.8 million (World Bank data here). Amazingly, it required a labor force 75% larger (and 14.5 million more people) in the UK to produce the same economic output last year as California! ... Further, California as a separate country would have been the 5th largest…

I've always been curious to find out if there is a study of California's location relative to it's GDP. How much of the GDP is based on coastline, major ports, access to imports from China/Southeast Asia that get distributed to the rest of the US, US based companies located there with manufacturing based in China and even Mexico. Geographically, it seems like it's in an ideal location to hold business HQ's with acces…

California...and the West Coast of the U.S. is an interesting place in that it's geographically divided from the rest of the country by a couple of major mountain ranges and large deserts. In addition, something like almost 50% of the state is unusable federal land (national parks, military bases, etc.)

Despite this, it's one of the major agricultural producers in the world due to it's variety of climate zones and long growing seasons. I'm not sure of the current status, but agriculture used to be a larger industry for the state than tech and film combined.

One might think that its geographic location would be a problem, and cross-Pacific trade isn't as big as cross-Atlantic, but it's just so large and populated as a state, and it turns out that intra-Americas trade is far dominant to either oceanic competitor. Just selling its products and services to the U.S. alone brings it enormous economic activity. But it turns out that most of what it produces also has ample foreign markets as well (tech, film, food).

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#49

Post by newlaptopnewacc » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

zer00eyz wrote: post #35

mhandley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That shows the power of immigration. I'm not even talking about immigration from outside the US, though that's significant too. California has such high GDP per capita because it draws well educated people from the rest of the US. If it was an independent country, it couldn't do that so easily.

> I'm not even talking about immigration from outside the US... Migration, or internal migration is probably a better term here. It isn't just the migration either - it is the nature of what happens. The top cities/areas for several industries are here, and many secondary ones as well. Film production, software/web, lots of aerospace. It also helps that a fair bit basic needs are provided back to the state by itself…

It was just some remoaner opportunism (brexit bitterness).

Re: Map: US States Renamed as Countries with Similar GDPs

#50

Post by pluto9 » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

lexs wrote: post #44

pluto9 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to…

oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo

Utterly pointless and idiotic comment. I made no judgement as to whether those higher taxes or the things they pay for are good or bad. I am merely saying that these things are trade-offs, and if you're going to count the benefits, you must also count the costs.