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China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

reuters.com

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Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#151

Post by imjustsaying »

Iv wrote: post #83
radicaldreamer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a lot of the fentanyl flowing into the US market being made in China, it's almost like a reverse opium war between the east/west.

Make no mistake: the opioid epidemics is pretty much a self-inflicted harm. It is what happens when you underfund actually useful drug programs and let corruption (relabelled 'lobbying') by pharmaceutical companies run unchecked. So yes, sure, China will make business if they can, but they are not "out there to get you".

>actually useful drug programs

For example?

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#152

Post by Andre_Wanglin »

joe_the_user wrote: post #80
ludston wrote: post #18

Congratulations to China and the Chinese people who have managed to measurably improve their livelihoods over the last few decades.

As a developing nation, China should indeed be experiencing an increased lifespan. But under normal circumstances, China's life expectancy increases should be getting closer and close to the curve of developed nations without actually touching - because all countries should be making progress. So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living condi…

>So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living conditions in the US.

True, however complicated by the obesity pandemic. Some informed estimates posit that by 2030 the majority of Americans will not be merely overweight but outright obese. [0] That alone is surely sufficient to retard and revert the US life expectancy.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22608371

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#153

Post by wazoox »

The United States was one of only five countries, along with Somalia, Afghanistan, Georgia and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, where healthy life expectancy at birth fell in 2016... Meanwhile U.S. life expectancy is falling, having peaked at 79 years in 2014, the first such reversal for many years...

This is also inequality and poverty taking their toll. May it be sign? In 1976, Emmanuel Todd announced the coming fall of USSR from its dropping life expectancy and other poor demographic results.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#154

Post by Andre_Wanglin »

wallace_f wrote: post #120
Nomentatus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in dispute - the question wasn't whether life in the U.S. was getting better but whether it was getting shorter.

Ok, but just personally I would say life expectancy / healthcare access are primary measures of 'is life getting better or worse' for people.

And what if both of those are caused by self-indulgence? Ballooning waistlines reducing lifespans while concomitantly causing healthcare shortages (because of high demand due to obesity-related chronic conditions) is definitely "getting worse" but it's an odd and self-inflicted sort of worse.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#155

Post by Iv »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #134
Iv wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a businessman from Hong-Kong, 15 years ago, telling me that as soon as USA realizes China is better at business than they are, they will switch overnight to hating capitalism and free trade. At the time I thought it was a bit exaggerated.

> as soon as USA realizes China is better at business than they are This is jingoistic at best. Let's ignore that "goodness at business" is an ambiguous and multidimensional metric. Or that defining a "better" direction is similarly dubious. The argument is simply "anything you can do I can do better." To that, the counterfactual is Ricardian comparative advantage. More broadly, every culture says such things in time…

I think I made it clear that this was a single person's opinion. And obviously biased that is. Still an interesting opinion in light of the recent trade war saber rattlings.

But realize that cities like Guangzhou (pop. 25 M) have been trading hubs for much longer than the USA has existed. And some families have had a continuous line of business for centuries. The business culture is very strong there.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#156

Post by skookumchuck »

> life expectancy at birth

This can be affected by how one defines birth. The US, for example, goes to fairly heroic lengths to save premature babies, and counts those that fail as infant mortality, whereas other countries may classify them as miscarriages.

A more portable figure would be life expectancy at one year.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#157

Post by jacobush »

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #152
joe_the_user wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developing nation, China should indeed be experiencing an increased lifespan. But under normal circumstances, China's life expectancy increases should be getting closer and close to the curve of developed nations without actually touching - because all countries should be making progress. So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living condi…

>So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living conditions in the US. True, however complicated by the obesity pandemic. Some informed estimates posit that by 2030 the majority of Americans will not be merely overweight but outright obese. [0] That alone is surely sufficient to retard and revert the US life expectancy. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.n…

Complicated, how? Obesity forming is part of declining living conditions.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#158

Post by saiya-jin »

ams6110 wrote: post #29
adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although, it also wouldn't be terribly surprising for China to pass the US on this metric. When you look at the obesity numbers: US 36%, New Zealand 31%, Canada 29%, Australia 29%, UK 28%, Israel 26%, Ireland 25% Thailand 10%, Indonesia 7%, China 6%, Philippines 6%, South Korea, 5%, Vietnam 2% Vietnam's life expectancy will overtake the US in the next 10-15 years as well most likely (they're about three year…

Obesity seems to be a side effect of prosperity, so China will probably be next.

French or Swiss or nordic countries are prosperous long term, yet none of these issues apply. It really isn't as simple as -> prosperity -> obesity.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#159

Post by Andre_Wanglin »

jacobush wrote: post #157
Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living conditions in the US. True, however complicated by the obesity pandemic. Some informed estimates posit that by 2030 the majority of Americans will not be merely overweight but outright obese. [0] That alone is surely sufficient to retard and revert the US life expectancy. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.n…

Complicated, how? Obesity forming is part of declining living conditions.

Obesity is a sign of improved living conditions that is also a sign of declining living conditions. The former conditions are largely out of the individual's control while the latter conditions are largely in his control. That is, being able to be obese is dictated by the economic vitality of one's country whereas being obese is dictated by one's actions.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#160

Post by iknowstuff »

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #159
jacobush wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complicated, how? Obesity forming is part of declining living conditions.

Obesity is a sign of improved living conditions that is also a sign of declining living conditions. The former conditions are largely out of the individual's control while the latter conditions are largely in his control. That is, being able to be obese is dictated by the economic vitality of one's country whereas being obese is dictated by one's actions.

Absolutely, but also the lobbying and campaigns vilifying fats, the lack of a competent authority explaining the benefits of sweeteners instead of sugars etc.
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