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China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

reuters.com

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Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#111

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ams6110 wrote: post #29
adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although, it also wouldn't be terribly surprising for China to pass the US on this metric. When you look at the obesity numbers: US 36%, New Zealand 31%, Canada 29%, Australia 29%, UK 28%, Israel 26%, Ireland 25% Thailand 10%, Indonesia 7%, China 6%, Philippines 6%, South Korea, 5%, Vietnam 2% Vietnam's life expectancy will overtake the US in the next 10-15 years as well most likely (they're about three year…

Obesity seems to be a side effect of prosperity, so China will probably be next.

小胖子 is already part of Chinese vocabulary, it is already happening in the cities, though nowhere near on an American scale.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#112

Post by seanmcdirmid »

intopieces wrote: post #85
gggibi08 wrote: post #24

This study is backward looking; it hasn't taken account of China's current set of factors that could skew the lifespan down tremendously for average Chinese citizens. Factors such as 1.) Air pollution. In your typical big cities, e.g Beijing, it average AQI 100-150 for the past 10+ years https://young-0.com/airquality/ . In other lower tiered cities, it average between 50-100. Just to compare, WHO recommend only AQI…

All valid points. The good news is that China has big ideas for dealing with these, and will actually implement them. I have no love for the CCP. I think they are an oppressive regime that unduly subjects their people to censorship and control. But I do respect that they invest in infrastructure and solving big problems for their people. The US seems to have given up. It seems to think that the problems we face are u…

The CPC has always had big plans for solving air pollution and smoking problems, ever since I started living there in 2007. Each campaign subsequently failed, so they don’t have a great track record on actually “getting things done.” Maybe it’s different this time, but a healthy dose of skepticism is definitely warranted.

Once my wife was pregnant, we had to leave Beijing, there was no way the air pollution problem would have been solved in time, even if the air got twice as clean it would still be way too much. Say what you want about the USA, but being able to open my windows everyday is incredibly liberating.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#113

Post by phyzome »

drcode wrote: post #3

I assume the WHO relies on local census & medical data to generate these statistics (the Reuters piece doesn't have a citation on ths) so I'd take this data with a grain of salt until we hear more details about the methodology.

Given the terrible state of US healthcare and social support infrastructure, I don't find this hard to believe at all.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#114

Post by txcwpalpha »

briandear wrote: post #66
txcwpalpha wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to those examples: standardized test scores (like those for college admissions), education records (including collegiate degrees), health records, residency records, credit scores, driving records are all permanent records that are maintained by organizations that are either governmental or no better than a govt org. I'm not a fan of China's system either, but it's silly to act like it's something new. Nearly…

My SAT score doesn’t dictate if I can board an airplane. My credit score doesn’t affect me getting a passport. Comparing China’s social credit system to US records is completely off base.

Your records certainly can affect you getting a passport. Depending on your criminal past, you may be banned from getting a passport. Similarly, some countries (Canada comes to mind) will ban you from entering the country for things as small as running a stop sign while driving. You can also be banned from getting a passport if you are behind on your taxes or child support payments.

As for getting on a plane, all of the above apply too, as well as the fact that you can be barred from flying simply by having a certain last name. Your personal records also affect things like how easy it is for you to get through customs and airport security. Global Entry/TSA PreCheck, for example, will be completely off-limits to you if you have 'questionable' travel records in your past.

Pretending the US/EU doesn't already have the Chinese social credit system in place is sticking your head in the sand. All China has done is formalize it.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#115

Post by acou_nPlusOne_t »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #37
adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although, it also wouldn't be terribly surprising for China to pass the US on this metric. When you look at the obesity numbers: US 36%, New Zealand 31%, Canada 29%, Australia 29%, UK 28%, Israel 26%, Ireland 25% Thailand 10%, Indonesia 7%, China 6%, Philippines 6%, South Korea, 5%, Vietnam 2% Vietnam's life expectancy will overtake the US in the next 10-15 years as well most likely (they're about three year…

"When you look at the obesity numbers" ... Unfortunately, theses 'lifespan' measurements have a lot to do with violent crime, car accidents, suicides, war deaths etc. - i.e. things that aren't so much about health than otherwise. It's why average lifespan isn't necessarily a very good measure of health outcomes. I think US is down due to overdoses, which is a kind of health issues, but not necessarily a regular measu…

A epidemic, that without quarantine, is contained to the US only.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#116

Post by siruncledrew »

intopieces wrote: post #85
gggibi08 wrote: post #24

This study is backward looking; it hasn't taken account of China's current set of factors that could skew the lifespan down tremendously for average Chinese citizens. Factors such as 1.) Air pollution. In your typical big cities, e.g Beijing, it average AQI 100-150 for the past 10+ years https://young-0.com/airquality/ . In other lower tiered cities, it average between 50-100. Just to compare, WHO recommend only AQI…

All valid points. The good news is that China has big ideas for dealing with these, and will actually implement them. I have no love for the CCP. I think they are an oppressive regime that unduly subjects their people to censorship and control. But I do respect that they invest in infrastructure and solving big problems for their people. The US seems to have given up. It seems to think that the problems we face are u…

Someone once told me:

China is like the kid that has to be home by 8pm because his parents want to make sure he gets his homework done after dinner.

The US is like the kid whose parents hired a nanny to make dinner for them and help the kid with his homework if he asks.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#117

Post by roenxi »

joe_the_user wrote: post #80
ludston wrote: post #18

Congratulations to China and the Chinese people who have managed to measurably improve their livelihoods over the last few decades.

As a developing nation, China should indeed be experiencing an increased lifespan. But under normal circumstances, China's life expectancy increases should be getting closer and close to the curve of developed nations without actually touching - because all countries should be making progress. So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living condi…

The story looks like a credible source of facts, but any takeaway is a minefield of ways to be wrong. I assume life expectancy is vulnerable to Simpson's paradox and that the we really need detailed analysis to determine why the aggregate difference exists.

Without that the differences in the article are not large enough to really draw anything out of except vague feelings of national pride.

Life expectancy is also a dangerous QoL metric in itself because it is so influenced by so many things (particularly infant mortality) that although longer is generally better it doesn't paint a very detailed picture. In an extreme case; I know that a pretty reasonable percentage of very elderly people would argue that a prolonged life leads to lower quality. "Healthy life expectancy" might be a much better indicator, but that looks like a technical term and I don't see a definition for it.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#118

Post by Nomentatus »

wallace_f wrote: post #108
joe_the_user wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developing nation, China should indeed be experiencing an increased lifespan. But under normal circumstances, China's life expectancy increases should be getting closer and close to the curve of developed nations without actually touching - because all countries should be making progress. So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living condi…

With respect to living conditions, it appears the "everything is gettng better," and "everything is getting worse," ideas are among the most succeptible to groupthink, and to cognitive dissonance. I also see this at reddit. Depending on the topic, and how it is framed, it seems everyone is either in agreement that life getting better, or that it is getting worse. For a counter example to your comment, most at this po…

Not in dispute - the question wasn't whether life in the U.S. was getting better but whether it was getting shorter.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#120

Post by wallace_f »

Nomentatus wrote: post #118
wallace_f wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to living conditions, it appears the "everything is gettng better," and "everything is getting worse," ideas are among the most succeptible to groupthink, and to cognitive dissonance. I also see this at reddit. Depending on the topic, and how it is framed, it seems everyone is either in agreement that life getting better, or that it is getting worse. For a counter example to your comment, most at this po…

Not in dispute - the question wasn't whether life in the U.S. was getting better but whether it was getting shorter.

Ok, but just personally I would say life expectancy / healthcare access are primary measures of 'is life getting better or worse' for people.
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