China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data • Hacker News Board

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#121

Post by chimeracoder » Thu, May 31, 2018, 3:54 AM UTC

bitexploder wrote: post #43

i_feel_great wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my utter ignorance/disbelief - are opioids killing/debilitating that many people to get this result?

No. I would guess the biggest factor is our number one killer, heart disease. Healthy lifespan.... People live a long time with heart disease, but they are never healthy again. Same with many terminal cancers, etc.

> No. I would guess the biggest factor is our number one killer, heart disease. Healthy lifespan.... People live a long time with heart disease, but they are never healthy again. Same with many terminal cancers, etc.

Those are the leading causes of death, but not the leading causes of the recent decline in life expectancy (heart disease has not contributed to a dramatic decrease is life expectancy).

The recent decrease is due to deaths from drug overdoses. They aren't the leading cause of death, but they have caused the life expectancy to decrease in the last few years.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#122

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:04 AM UTC

acou_nPlusOne_t wrote: post #115

sonnyblarney wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you look at the obesity numbers" ... Unfortunately, theses 'lifespan' measurements have a lot to do with violent crime, car accidents, suicides, war deaths etc. - i.e. things that aren't so much about health than otherwise. It's why average lifespan isn't necessarily a very good measure of health outcomes. I think US is down due to overdoses, which is a kind of health issues, but not necessarily a regular measu…

A epidemic, that without quarantine, is contained to the US only.

It's in Vancouver. And many other places.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#123

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:11 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #37

adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although, it also wouldn't be terribly surprising for China to pass the US on this metric. When you look at the obesity numbers: US 36%, New Zealand 31%, Canada 29%, Australia 29%, UK 28%, Israel 26%, Ireland 25% Thailand 10%, Indonesia 7%, China 6%, Philippines 6%, South Korea, 5%, Vietnam 2% Vietnam's life expectancy will overtake the US in the next 10-15 years as well most likely (they're about three year…

"When you look at the obesity numbers" ... Unfortunately, theses 'lifespan' measurements have a lot to do with violent crime, car accidents, suicides, war deaths etc. - i.e. things that aren't so much about health than otherwise. It's why average lifespan isn't necessarily a very good measure of health outcomes. I think US is down due to overdoses, which is a kind of health issues, but not necessarily a regular measu…

Heart disease is the biggest killer by far in the USA.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#124

Post by 8note » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #117

joe_the_user wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developing nation, China should indeed be experiencing an increased lifespan. But under normal circumstances, China's life expectancy increases should be getting closer and close to the curve of developed nations without actually touching - because all countries should be making progress. So the obvious story here is the actual decrease in US life expectancy, a situation broadly reflecting declining living condi…

The story looks like a credible source of facts, but any takeaway is a minefield of ways to be wrong. I assume life expectancy is vulnerable to Simpson's paradox and that the we really need detailed analysis to determine why the aggregate difference exists. Without that the differences in the article are not large enough to really draw anything out of except vague feelings of national pride. Life expectancy is also a…

I'm surprised there's no measure for life expectancy, given you made it to age 20.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#125

Post by 8note » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:46 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #83

radicaldreamer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a lot of the fentanyl flowing into the US market being made in China, it's almost like a reverse opium war between the east/west.

Make no mistake: the opioid epidemics is pretty much a self-inflicted harm. It is what happens when you underfund actually useful drug programs and let corruption (relabelled 'lobbying') by pharmaceutical companies run unchecked. So yes, sure, China will make business if they can, but they are not "out there to get you".

in both cases, it could be said as "out to make money" not "out to get you"

it just so happens that it's always very profitable to sell opium.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#126

Post by 8note » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:51 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #16

wetpaws wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every single being on this planet is playing social status game, all China did is put a number on it.

A government issued number. Thats the key difference. In the real world you can move in the country and start anew somewhere else.

I'm pretty sure China is in the real world

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#127

Post by 8note » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:53 AM UTC

tropdrop wrote: post #28

platinumrad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true in the west as well. Especially now in 2018, if someone you're even tangentially connected to does something deemed to be unsavory you are expected to immediately and forcefully disavow them or face the social consequences. Even then, you still may be tainted by association.

When uncle Joe in Utah posts a racist rant on Facebook, I don't get penalized. Even if he posts a political rant or conspiracy theory, I don't get penalized. I can and do still remain friends with him on this social media channel without consequence.

racist uncle Joe doesn't get penalised either, so I don't think it's an apt comparison

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#128

Post by microcolonel » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #120

Nomentatus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in dispute - the question wasn't whether life in the U.S. was getting better but whether it was getting shorter.

Ok, but just personally I would say life expectancy / healthcare access are primary measures of 'is life getting better or worse' for people.

It depends on whether the factors leading to shorter life are deliberate (or just willful) or accidental.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#129

Post by 8note » Thu, May 31, 2018, 4:59 AM UTC

kizer wrote: post #68

platinumrad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true in the west as well. Especially now in 2018, if someone you're even tangentially connected to does something deemed to be unsavory you are expected to immediately and forcefully disavow them or face the social consequences. Even then, you still may be tainted by association.

Uh, no? People who know you or the person associated may judge you negatively, but the US government will not penalize you and affect which public services you can use. It's a tremendous difference...

depends what you mean by penalize.

the US government doesn't give sufficient services that you can live just fine without a good credit score, so in essence, it is penalizing you. it's just a distributed punishment

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#130

Post by indemnity » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:03 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #51

dv_dt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just obesity that drives poor US life expectancy performance. Mexico's life expectancy is projected to rise meet the US life expectancy by 2030, and they're a nation with a fairly high obesity percentage. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/22/us-life-expectancy-is-low-an... We have to acknowledge that the lack of Universal Healthcare in the US is a big driver of our poor life expectancy showing.

Without question. The US for example had a higher life expectancy than New Zealand during the 1980s, then the US began to trail off and fall behind. Now it's ~2.7 years behind New Zealand. The US was also ahead of the UK as recently as 1983. What changed? A few big things. Healthcare in the US became wildly expensive after the 1980s, following an extreme cost increase far beyond inflation, whereas before it was not f…

I also found it interesting to see what the insurance companies predicted my lifespan will be given I was born in 1980, don’t smoke, am fit & live in New Zealand.

Apparently the actuaries reckon I’ll make it to 91 and wife to 94.