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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#441
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow it super closely but there is exactly 1 car manufacture that I can think of guilty of pushing the self driving myth. The established car makers seem to market it as an assist, not as an autopilot. Tesla is the outlier, everyone else is much more conservative.

I think there is more than one. This Audi ad from 2016 shows it driving around with no hands on wheel. They don't get as much press as Tesla, and I don't know how good their system is, but it sure does make a bold implication (although their choice of the "Piloted Driving" name is probably a much safer choice than Teslas. https://youtu.be/I2j2-DqcPfM

Well do you think a T. rex is going to be able to drive? If you visit the website [1] the large header text says:

> Audi development engineer Thomas Müller and his team sent “Lu Ban” and “Kong Ming”, two piloted Audi A7 Sportback prototypes, on a very special kind of test drive.

This is a very far cry from what Tesla and Musk are doing. For starters you can't even buy the car yet. If you look for information on "Audi Piloted Driving" [2] you can see they're just as cautious as you'd imagine a German company to be:

> In 2017 Audi will introduce what’s expected to the world’s first to-market Level 3 automated driving system with “Traffic Jam Pilot” in the next generation Audi A8. The system will give drivers the option to travel hands-free up to 35 mph, when certain conditions are met prior to enabling this feature — for instance, the vehicle will ensure it is on a limited-access, divided highway.

Note that it will only work on highways, but also only at non-highway speeds. Stop and go traffic.

> In 2020-2021, Audi will introduce a Level 4 “Highway Pilot” feature—technology similar to what has been demonstrated in our concept vehicle “Jack”—that offers hands-free driving at posted limited access highway speeds in which the vehicle can execute lane changes and pass cars independently.

Seems pretty cautious to me.

[1] https://www.audi.com/en/innovation/piloteddriving/piloted_dr...

[2] http://media.audiusa.com/models/piloted-driving

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#442
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHTSA found a 40% crash rate reduction from Tesla's autopilot. I'd say thats what its good for.

This stat is widely misunderstood. Tesla rolled out Collision Avoidance Assist and Autopilot around the same time. These variables were not isolated by the NHTSA.[1] It is likely that collision avoidance was the major factor in the crash rate reduction. It is even possible that autopilot increased the accident rate. No doubt collision avoidance is a fantastic feature though. Addendum: Looks likes the NHTSA has disavo…

so while its possible, Tesla is making changes that bring accident rates down. Everyone here is acting like its certain with absolutely no scientific evidence. Clearly by significantly more than they go up. Its stupid to come down on them like they're murdering people. That IS how you stop all progress.

Furthermore, no one is forcing anyone to buy Teslas. People should be free to do as they choose. I have no doubt, for example, that a corvette, lambo, m3, or convertible all increase certain risks for their drivers by far more than autopilot - which probably decreases their risks.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#443
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about that thread suggests those are available while in autopilot, and they're not.

They are, you can see the driver demoing it here: https://youtu.be/1GrNv3ow9H8

Hmm, yup, that's way more eye candy than I thought was available. Agree that it should be very difficult to get to that stuff during auto-pilot.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s helpful or even correct to say “people are dumb,” as if this is purely a user problem. The system exists in a bad gray zone — one that works well enough most of the time you stop paying attention. But it’s not full proof, so you get the worst of cognitive bias here. Personally I think this faux self driving (literally falsely named auto pilot) should be outlawed. We cannot depend on people to take…

How do we make the eventual evolution from faux self-driving to full self-driving if not through incremental improvements? I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I assume real data must be acquired for that to happen.

You raise the bar of what you need to deliver which will change your approach, and don’t ship products that aren't ready.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#445
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I was already doing this even though I don’t know of any law that requires it where I live. You learn something every day.

I would assume they would teach you basic things like these in the driving school? I suppose that's not the case? Learning a "new" thing like that would probably make me hastily begin to wonder what else I might be missing.

The first move over law was enacted in 1996 and they didn’t become standard until the 2000s. Believe it or not, a lot of us went to driving school before that.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they aren’t the fact that you can bypass their restrictions does not matter it’s the intent that does.

Still, using ip addresses to try to determine where a request is originating from is not a good idea. I'm also not intending to bypass a block, I just happen to be in a network right now that that doesn't have a public ip in the EU, I'm using the internet as intended, the fact that ips sometimes correspond to geography is mostly accidental.

> Still, using ip addresses to try to determine where a request is originating from is not a good idea

How else should they do it? I concede it is not foolproof nor ideal - but for websites which you've not provided your location to yourself, how is it possible for them to determine whether or not you are in Europe?

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#447
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so stupid, they are still infracting on European Citizens that just happen to not be in Europe. For example I can get to the page but I am in Switzerland which is not part of the EU yet smack in the middle of Europe.

The GDPR's scope is EU (or EEA, I can't recall) residents in EU territories, it has no provisions at all for EU citizens who reside outside the territory.

I'm in San Marino, I can read the page, and San Marino is not EU but it is in the scope of the GDPR law.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#448
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, using ip addresses to try to determine where a request is originating from is not a good idea. I'm also not intending to bypass a block, I just happen to be in a network right now that that doesn't have a public ip in the EU, I'm using the internet as intended, the fact that ips sometimes correspond to geography is mostly accidental.

> Still, using ip addresses to try to determine where a request is originating from is not a good idea How else should they do it? I concede it is not foolproof nor ideal - but for websites which you've not provided your location to yourself, how is it possible for them to determine whether or not you are in Europe?

You are allowed to use it and even keep it without consent if anything the GDPR wants to separate consent from data processing. https://eugdprcompliant.com/personal-data/

You can maintain the records of an IP address (as well as other PII) for business needs e.g. security or to enforce other requirements such as geoblocking even without explicit consent of the user it's all about why you and what do you with it which is why legal/lawful grounds exist.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Also for the most part if you do not have a lawful basis for collecting or processing PII consent is not a sufficient reason to so.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You turn the steering wheel to control where that Mars rover goes." No you don't. The Mars map is exactly like the Earth map, with a Mars texture instead of the map, and a rover instead of an arrow. Technically you control where the rover goes by using the steering wheel, because the steering wheel controls where your car goes, and the rover's movements come from your car's GPS. But it's not the sort of video game y…

All the same I'd rather the developers at Tesla were working on improving the autopilot functionality instead of developing easter eggs.

That's fair, but a radically different statement from "when you are in autopilot they have video games and memes to play/watch on the giant screen."

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked about actual crashes. You gave me info about a controlled test where the exact car discussed in this article avoided the test collision. Given that the car discussed in this article crashed in real life, the controlled test is clearly not the final word in whether these other cars are experiencing crashes like this in the real world. Also, I wasn't asking about how Autopilot compares to similar systems from o…

I'm just going to leave you to your non-data driven skepticism of "everything other than tesla", because this is clearly not a useful conversation. That isn't what you originally asked (and as you see, i wasn't the only one who interpreted it this way), and imho it's not a useful comparison. I have no idea why one would ask "is autopilot worse" and then say "but only compared to humans, not taking into account the ot…

I'm not talking about people who disable collision avoidance. I'm talking about people driving cars that don't have it at all. These are, as far as I know, still the vast majority of cars out there.

The data you provided is clearly not sufficient to reach conclusions about actual crash rates, so I really don't see how it's useful to present.

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