Sounds like Tesla has the right idea?
Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
411–420 of 488 posts
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely. But it isn't fully assisted and doesn't completely remove the need for interaction. It just is another step forward from cruise control that is more assisted and requires less interaction. I am not sure why everyone assumes the sweet spot for driver assistance ends immediately after adaptive cruise control and before cruise…
Backseat drivers pay less attention than frontseat drivers, obviously. Your characterization of autopilot as “just cruise control” is fundamentally incorrect. Mere cruise control still demands significant and continuous attention and manual control on your behalf (steering). Autosteer makes the leap to fully automatic, which opens the door to not paying attention for long stretches of time.
I am honestly not sure how to discuss this topic when in the same thread Tesla gets ridiculed for blurring the lines between Autopilot and full self driving while people who are critical of the system say things like Autopilot is "fully automatic", "fully-assisted driving", or "removes the need for interaction completely".
From a practical perspective, Autopilot still needs to be monitored. But more relevant to this discussion, the user still needs to interact with the car to keep Autopilot engaged. It is possible to do that while paying very little attention. It is also possible to drive a car with cruise control while paying very little attention. Both systems can be abused. I have already said Tesla should do a better job of trying to crack down on the abuse of Autopilot. But I don't know why it is controversial to say that if used properly both systems can lead to greater safety by allowing the driver to focus on other aspects of driving.
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How many times does "attention needed" beep is needed before customer can be considered reasonably informed that it is not fully self-driving? I mean there is a warning telling you that it's not self driving. People are dumb, that's it.
I don’t think it’s helpful or even correct to say “people are dumb,” as if this is purely a user problem. The system exists in a bad gray zone — one that works well enough most of the time you stop paying attention. But it’s not full proof, so you get the worst of cognitive bias here. Personally I think this faux self driving (literally falsely named auto pilot) should be outlawed. We cannot depend on people to take…
How do we make the eventual evolution from faux self-driving to full self-driving if not through incremental improvements?
I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I assume real data must be acquired for that to happen.
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#414Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…
This is so stupid, they are still infracting on European Citizens that just happen to not be in Europe. For example I can get to the page but I am in Switzerland which is not part of the EU yet smack in the middle of Europe.
The GDPR's scope is EU (or EEA, I can't recall) residents in EU territories, it has no provisions at all for EU citizens who reside outside the territory.
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#415Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…
Really goes to show how what they do with the reader's data that they collect is actually shady to the point of illegality in large swathes of the world.
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're like Lewis Carroll's Humpty Dumpty > what I say is always what I mean, and if you misunderstand, it's your fault. Linguistic pragmatics 101: communication is a two way street.
That crosses into personal attack, which please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems a legitimate question. I have never worked on this problem either but I would have thought that detecting a stationary object right in front of the car should be one of the basic and simpler functions of a self driving system. Obviously this doesn't seem to be the case but maybe you can enlighten us why this is hard?
False positives from road signs, overhead signs, radar-reflective trash. Commonly used radars have limited vertical discrimination.
Why would the radar even be pointed at areas several meters above the car?
Maybe radars can't be pointed at a narrow space, if that's the case why not use lidar instead?
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#418I don't get it, why is it so hard to detect stationary objects in front of you? wouldn't that be the "hello world" of any self-driving tech? Every time I ask this question, the response is "radar as a technology has too much noise, not accurate enough to detect stationary objects". But it DOES detect stationary objects. Otherwise no one would even turn on Tesla AP at all. Why is it so hard to detect stationary object…
You do realize that when driving, 90% of the things around you are stationary, right? Also, it may not apply to this specific case, but try comparing a plastic bag in the streets vs a big rock. Telling those two apart isn't trivial, but only one of those you can drive through.
If you routinely drive through plastic bags on the street, prepare for some disappointment when it turns out that the bag had a rock inside it. The car should 100% also avoid bags or any obstacles.
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#419I don't get it, why is it so hard to detect stationary objects in front of you? wouldn't that be the "hello world" of any self-driving tech? Every time I ask this question, the response is "radar as a technology has too much noise, not accurate enough to detect stationary objects". But it DOES detect stationary objects. Otherwise no one would even turn on Tesla AP at all. Why is it so hard to detect stationary object…
> I don't get it, why is it so hard to detect stationary objects in front of you? This could only be said by someone who has never worked on the problem. I don't get it, why is programming so hard, you are just telling the computer exactly what to do?
Instead of being condescending this would have been a good time to explain the challenges
A static object has a negative Doppler shift rate linearly in proportion to vehicle speed and a y-axis position greater than zero but less than four metres. What makes that difficult to detect or distinguish?
Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is subtly different from cruise control, which lets you concentrate on steering and rest your foot on the brake so you can use it quickly if needed. Cruise control doesn't encourage lowering attention, but enhances it. What has lead you to this conclusion? Autopilot is really just advanced cruise control. You can treat it the exact same way by leaving your foot on the brake and leaving a hand on the wheel. If p…
Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely. Your brain will stop spending power on backseat driving, because the brain is really lazy--and clever about being lazy too.
I like you. The first thing that pops up is a "wall-e" society