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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#421

Post by DanBC »

austenallred wrote: post #408
sschueller wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so stupid, they are still infracting on European Citizens that just happen to not be in Europe. For example I can get to the page but I am in Switzerland which is not part of the EU yet smack in the middle of Europe.

How do you propose they determine that you’re a part of the EU if not by IP address and if they can’t track members of the EU?

The point is that they're i) blocking people who aren't covered by GDPR. ii) not actually exempting themselves from GDPR because they still have all the data from EU residents from before the blocking.

Blocking EU residents as a GDPR protection is dumb.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#422

Post by pavelludiq »

iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

I'm in the EU, but since I'm looking at it from a work computer, and I guess our network exits in the US, I can see the article, so they are in breach of GDPR even with their stupid block.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#423

Post by DanBC »

> The Palo Alto-based automaker, led by Elon Musk, has said it repeatedly warns drivers to stay alert, keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of their vehicle at all times while using the Autopilot system.

That Tesla is taking so long to learn what "human factors" are is painful, especially since HF has been part of other industries for decades.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#424

Post by dingaling »

userbinator wrote: post #196
abalone wrote: post #102

I keep wondering what the customer benefit of Level 2 autopilot is if not to lower your attention and relax your mind. Tesla's "out" is that drivers are supposed to retain full attention and oversight of the autopilot system -- but then if you strictly follow this rule, what is the benefit of autopilot? I can see the benefit to Tesla and future Tesla customers of essentially crowdsourced fleet learning. But what is t…

but then if you strictly follow this rule, what is the benefit of autopilot? Indeed. When reading Tesla's statement, "The Palo Alto-based automaker, led by Elon Musk, has said it repeatedly warns drivers to stay alert, keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of their vehicle at all times while using the Autopilot system." ...one can't help but think, "then WTF is it good for , if I still have to drive the…

> ...one can't help but think, "then WTF is it good for, if I still have to drive the car myself while using it?"

And why are Tesla burning karma by promoting this technology?

For SpaceX, self-landing rockets are a direct method of reducing costs.

For Tesla, sort-of-self-driving cars are a distraction from the core product and are tainting the brand. Stick to selling top-tier electric vehicles with human-driving, people will still buy them on merit.

To me it's am example of what happens when software developers run the asylum. You can do nearly anything in software, but should you?

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#425

Post by abalone »

slg wrote: post #412
abalone wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backseat drivers pay less attention than frontseat drivers, obviously. Your characterization of autopilot as “just cruise control” is fundamentally incorrect. Mere cruise control still demands significant and continuous attention and manual control on your behalf (steering). Autosteer makes the leap to fully automatic, which opens the door to not paying attention for long stretches of time.

I am honestly not sure how to discuss this topic when in the same thread Tesla gets ridiculed for blurring the lines between Autopilot and full self driving while people who are critical of the system say things like Autopilot is "fully automatic", "fully-assisted driving", or "removes the need for interaction completely". From a practical perspective, Autopilot still needs to be monitored. But more relevant to this…

You're mischaracterizing the issue. Autopilot should be monitored but it can go for long stretches without manual intervention (as if fully automatic). Mere cruise control, on the other hand, requires manual steering.

You're just trying to make them sound similar, e.g. "if used properly" or "both can be abused". But there is an ocean of difference. It is vastly easier to ignore a system that is capable of driverless operation for long periods of time.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#426

Post by dogma1138 »

pavelludiq wrote: post #422
iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

I'm in the EU, but since I'm looking at it from a work computer, and I guess our network exits in the US, I can see the article, so they are in breach of GDPR even with their stupid block.

No they aren’t the fact that you can bypass their restrictions does not matter it’s the intent that does.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#427

Post by hndamien »

hndamien wrote: post #407
dang wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've unfortunately contributed the most to this flamewar. We don't want those here. Please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thank you. I didn't take any offense to Humpty Dumpty, I understand his point. I'm more surprised that somebody calling me a "smug pedant" led to me being banned for what seems a simple point, Tesla never said their car was fully self driving, and went to fairly great lengths to explain and notify that it isn't. (sans the video which I agree implies a lot too much).

THat thank you was actually directed at dang, anyway, why am I not surprised that even that comment was downvoted. I am truly amazed by this conversation and fail to understand how those commenting here pass the bar for civil conversation.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#428

Post by sireat »

iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

Exactly, while I have access to VPN and other means of bypassing the block, I have no intention of supporting such lackadaisical solutions to our privacy.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#429

Post by pavelludiq »

dogma1138 wrote: post #426
pavelludiq wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the EU, but since I'm looking at it from a work computer, and I guess our network exits in the US, I can see the article, so they are in breach of GDPR even with their stupid block.

No they aren’t the fact that you can bypass their restrictions does not matter it’s the intent that does.

Still, using ip addresses to try to determine where a request is originating from is not a good idea. I'm also not intending to bypass a block, I just happen to be in a network right now that that doesn't have a public ip in the EU, I'm using the internet as intended, the fact that ips sometimes correspond to geography is mostly accidental.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#430

Post by taneq »

mcguire wrote: post #205
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted, but I agree. A commercial pilot doesn't flip on autopilot and start browsing the internet on a phone or take a nap. And that's at 30k feet where there's little traffic to worry about. It seems like a misunderstanding of what the technology does, by consumers and the media. I'm no expert on Tesla's marketing history, but I'm of the opinion that these crashes are due to drivers misunderstandin…

If someone misunderstands you, they may have a problem. If everyone misunderstands you, you may have a problem.

If almost everyone understands you but a tiny vocal minority pretends they didn't, though...
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