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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#401

Post by abalone »

slg wrote: post #382
toxik wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely. Your brain will stop spending power on backseat driving, because the brain is really lazy--and clever about being lazy too.

>Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely. But it isn't fully assisted and doesn't completely remove the need for interaction. It just is another step forward from cruise control that is more assisted and requires less interaction. I am not sure why everyone assumes the sweet spot for driver assistance ends immediately after adaptive cruise control and before cruise…

Backseat drivers pay less attention than frontseat drivers, obviously.

Your characterization of autopilot as “just cruise control” is fundamentally incorrect. Mere cruise control still demands significant and continuous attention and manual control on your behalf (steering). Autosteer makes the leap to fully automatic, which opens the door to not paying attention for long stretches of time.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#402

Post by slg »

wang_li wrote: post #385
slg wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no conclusive study either way. The only real data we have is the two confirmed deaths in Autopilot accidents in over a billion miles driven with Autopilot. That is not enough data to draw a definitive conclusion, but it at the very least shows that there is not a huge problem that makes it dramatically more dangerous. For comparison the overall casualty rate for the average car in the US is somewhere near 1…

There are other factors that influence fatalities in automobile accidents. You can't legitimately use deaths per miles driven as a proxy for how good a driver Tesla's autopilot feature is.

Sure, which is why I said we had no conclusive data. However, at the very least no red flags have popped up in the statistics. Think of it like flipping a coin 3 times and we got heads all three times. That is not nearly enough to judge whether the coin is fair, but we are probably getting close to concluding that the coin isn't weighted heavily in favor of tails. The sample size is still small but nothing in the statistics is screaming out that Autopilot is a big danger when compared with driving manually.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#403

Post by freethought »

nikofeyn wrote: post #371
abalone wrote: post #102

I keep wondering what the customer benefit of Level 2 autopilot is if not to lower your attention and relax your mind. Tesla's "out" is that drivers are supposed to retain full attention and oversight of the autopilot system -- but then if you strictly follow this rule, what is the benefit of autopilot? I can see the benefit to Tesla and future Tesla customers of essentially crowdsourced fleet learning. But what is t…

> Supervising autopilot to the degree required to correct sudden mistakes seems, to me, to be probably very close to the mental load of the details of steering yourself. intuitively, the load seems higher . this is because your brain must now include predictions regarding an additional third party who is not there in cars without autopilot or with autopilot off. it’s similar to how i am more stressed and tired after…

I have not enabled it for this reason. I suspect that Tesla might too otherwise they would probably just let people have a 1 month free trial of autopilot so people would pony up the cash.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#404

Post by izacus »

iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

I'd suggest flagging all articles posted here that prevent EU access. The content writers kinda have a right to deny you access, but we don't need to drive traffic in direction of those that refuse to handle your privacy well.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#405

Post by mirimir »

iamtew wrote: post #384
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also quite disconcerting to consider the implications of this. Since we 'opt in' to the articles we click on, tracking what individuals read and then building a profile based off of that would be quite informative, and quite invasive. And then sharing, trading (to expand the profile), and selling it to other companies? Really nasty stuff.

That's exactly why the GDPR is put in place, to give users transparency and force website to ask the users consent before tracking. You'll see some sites have quite an extensive menu of opting in to various tracking etc. For example Engadget or TechCrunch have a popup asking you to give consent, or not, before using the website. This is how it should be done. Then there's other websites that shows you all it's tracki…

Perhaps some major players in the programmatic ad clusterfuck have just thrown their hands up over GDPR.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#406

Post by hndamien »

yellow_postit wrote: post #368
hndamien wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't apparently read pop-ups prior to driving, ends of sentences ("full self driving capable hardware"), definitions of words, hacker news comments, listen to audible warnings to keep hands on the steering wheel. At what point does a person become responsible for their own actions?

Rephrased: at what point should Tesla remove this ambiguity from their marketing materials?

Depends on the ambiguity. I would agree that they should remove the video unless they put a giant disclaimer on it right now.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#407

Post by hndamien »

dang wrote: post #340
hndamien wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Wikipedia's consensus that I linked to is wrong?

You've unfortunately contributed the most to this flamewar. We don't want those here. Please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thank you. I didn't take any offense to Humpty Dumpty, I understand his point. I'm more surprised that somebody calling me a "smug pedant" led to me being banned for what seems a simple point, Tesla never said their car was fully self driving, and went to fairly great lengths to explain and notify that it isn't. (sans the video which I agree implies a lot too much).

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#408

Post by austenallred »

sschueller wrote: post #398
iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

This is so stupid, they are still infracting on European Citizens that just happen to not be in Europe. For example I can get to the page but I am in Switzerland which is not part of the EU yet smack in the middle of Europe.

How do you propose they determine that you’re a part of the EU if not by IP address and if they can’t track members of the EU?

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#410

Post by eyeing_see »

cherioo wrote: post #337

People always lament about how Tesla tries to mislead customer's about its capability, but is there actually data that shows this is truly the case among Tesla owners? How many times does "attention needed" beep is needed before customer can be considered reasonably informed that it is not fully self-driving? Even among non-Tesla cars, whose manufacturers don't try to "mislead", 71 percent of people believe automatic…

These cars are driving on public roads, so the question is not whether the user is informed but whether they are compliant. It doesn't take many ignored beeps to learn that a particular customer is not using the feature as intended, and deactivate it for the safety of others. Offer to turn it back on after watching a trainig video at the dealer and signing some papers once, escalate to a mandatory counselling session after that, third strike and the feature is permanently off. Put it in the TOS so that asshole drivers can't sue and win in court. The customer should not be king when the safety of others is on the line.
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