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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#381

Post by slg »

pdonis wrote: post #377
slg wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no conclusive study either way. The only real data we have is the two confirmed deaths in Autopilot accidents in over a billion miles driven with Autopilot. That is not enough data to draw a definitive conclusion, but it at the very least shows that there is not a huge problem that makes it dramatically more dangerous. For comparison the overall casualty rate for the average car in the US is somewhere near 1…

> over a billion miles driven with Autopilot No, it's over a billion miles driven by Tesla cars that have the sensor hardware that Autopilot uses. The number of miles driven with Autopilot actually engaged is about 300 million, at least according to the data Tesla has released. https://electrek.co/2016/11/13/tesla-autopilot-billion-miles...

Look at the date on that article. It is from 2016. Tesla has sold a lot of cars and those cars have driven a lot of miles in the last year and a half. Tesla is certainly over a billion miles in Autopilot driving by now.

EDIT: Here is a Tweet from April 2016 saying 47m miles. [1] Your linked article is from November 2016 and shows 300m miles. That is 250m miles in 7 months. Projecting that forward with zero growth, Tesla would have accumulated roughly 950m miles in Autopilot usage. That isn't including the over 100,000 cars Tesla has sold since November of 2016 or the miles those cars have accumulated in that time. I stand by my statement that Teslas have recorded over a billion miles while using Autopilot.

[1] - https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/718845153318834176

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#382

Post by slg »

toxik wrote: post #373
slg wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is subtly different from cruise control, which lets you concentrate on steering and rest your foot on the brake so you can use it quickly if needed. Cruise control doesn't encourage lowering attention, but enhances it. What has lead you to this conclusion? Autopilot is really just advanced cruise control. You can treat it the exact same way by leaving your foot on the brake and leaving a hand on the wheel. If p…

Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely. Your brain will stop spending power on backseat driving, because the brain is really lazy--and clever about being lazy too.

>Because the fully-assisted driving ("autopilot") removes the need for interaction completely.

But it isn't fully assisted and doesn't completely remove the need for interaction. It just is another step forward from cruise control that is more assisted and requires less interaction. I am not sure why everyone assumes the sweet spot for driver assistance ends immediately after adaptive cruise control and before cruise control plus lane keeping.

>Your brain will stop spending power on backseat driving

That is an interesting phrase to use considering backseat drivers have zero responsibility or control of a car but still manage to pay attention.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#383

Post by nikofeyn »

SriniK wrote: post #358

I really wish everyone had a chance to use the autopilot feature and judge themselves. I use it every single day and trust the machine. Issue is, with every complex system, there are few ins and outs that users need to know - like lane merge buffer lines, sharp lane merges by another vehicle in front of view, etc. Within your first few rides(below 10), users could pretty much guess when it works and when it might hav…

can i ask why you “trust” the system with your life so much?

there’s not a single piece of software i trust in my daily life. i mean, something as simple as an iPad, phone, computer, tv, etc. hardly goes a day without a glitch, but yet people are ready to trust “self-driving” auto features as if they’ve never experienced a software failure before. and normally, it isn’t a software failure in the strictest sense. it’s a human error embedded in software. so i ask myself, do i trust the however many overworked, sleep deprived, wide-eyed engineers’ abstract and concrete thought now embedded in cars’ active driving systems? the answer is no way.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#384

Post by iamtew »

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #354
iamtew wrote: post #344

Is the article available to Europeans somewhere? All I'm getting is a message with this: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism…

It's also quite disconcerting to consider the implications of this. Since we 'opt in' to the articles we click on, tracking what individuals read and then building a profile based off of that would be quite informative, and quite invasive. And then sharing, trading (to expand the profile), and selling it to other companies? Really nasty stuff.

That's exactly why the GDPR is put in place, to give users transparency and force website to ask the users consent before tracking.

You'll see some sites have quite an extensive menu of opting in to various tracking etc. For example Engadget or TechCrunch have a popup asking you to give consent, or not, before using the website. This is how it should be done.

Then there's other websites that shows you all it's tracking and ask you to just accept, there's no option to refuse, which is against GDPR, as implied consent is no longer valid.

And then you'll have websites like latimes that just goes "fuck it, we'll just block 500 million people in EU instead!"

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#385

Post by wang_li »

slg wrote: post #367
dbasedweeb wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is shipping systems in the absolute infancy of this technology that are already statistically indistinguishable from human drivers as far as safety goes. That’s a hell of a claim, I’d love to see some serious citations on it.

There is no conclusive study either way. The only real data we have is the two confirmed deaths in Autopilot accidents in over a billion miles driven with Autopilot. That is not enough data to draw a definitive conclusion, but it at the very least shows that there is not a huge problem that makes it dramatically more dangerous. For comparison the overall casualty rate for the average car in the US is somewhere near 1…

There are other factors that influence fatalities in automobile accidents. You can't legitimately use deaths per miles driven as a proxy for how good a driver Tesla's autopilot feature is.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#386

Post by mirimir »

I can't figure out the geometry of this accident. It looks like the Tesla hit the cruiser near the left rear wheel. And the cruiser was pushed sideways over the curb. But its right rear tire looks to be inflated.

So why would the Tesla have been heading toward the roadside? Was the cruiser perhaps parked in the middle of the roadway?

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#387

Post by jread »

I live in Laguna, cycled by this accident today, own a Tesla, and can attest to consistent autopilot issues in this section of the highway. The road widens with a turnoff to the right, and in my experience that is exactly the direction autopilot wants to go every time, rather than follow the center line, even when it is tracking a lead vehicle that does so. There are no lines to the right, so I’m not quite sure why it does this. But, I can understand how an innattentive driver might end up in this situation because until this point in the road autopilot works great.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#388

Post by Gustomaximus »

djsumdog wrote: post #303
mentat wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subaru Eye Sight does this reliably and actually auto brakes correctly. Going from that to APv2 has been a real step back. There's a curve on 92W that it consistently try to accelerate you into an embankment. I think Elon just doesn't understand the real world reality of how bad AP is.

It really bothers me manufacturers are pushing incremental updates to car safety systems. Does anyone besides me think this is a terrible idea?

Aren't cars doing that today with their physical saftey systems?

How else would they do it than incremental?

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#389

Post by toxik »

cr4zy wrote: post #338

One way to avoid these types of crashes IMO is anomaly detection. It's quite simple to do anomaly detection in pixels using modern deep pixel prediction nets like PredNet. In my experiments you get a few seconds lead time on something like a car cutting you off (the car starts to head out of the lane before actually crossing it for example). This allows alerting the driver, and with a full windshield HUD you could ev…

Great you solved AD with this one simple trick!

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#390

Post by yason »

mirceal wrote: post #177
mikeash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means that when passing a stopped emergency vehicle, you need to change lanes to avoid passing right next to them (“move over”) or slow down substantially.

Thanks. I was already doing this even though I don’t know of any law that requires it where I live. You learn something every day.

I would assume they would teach you basic things like these in the driving school? I suppose that's not the case?

Learning a "new" thing like that would probably make me hastily begin to wonder what else I might be missing.

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