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Loot boxes are obviously gambling

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 171 posts

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#41

Gambling is gambling, loot box is loot box, I think we should not spending time on arguing the definition, but instead limit loot box as what we do with gambling. New stuff come with new rules, may sound more resealable.

That's like saying "gambling is gambling, roulette is roulette"...

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#42
post #16

Gambling is gambling, loot box is loot box, I think we should not spending time on arguing the definition, but instead limit loot box as what we do with gambling. New stuff come with new rules, may sound more resealable.

I agree - Gambling is rolling the dice to make back more money than you put in. Loot box is rolling the dice to get digital items you want with no expectation to profit. There is a difference.

How is it with no expectation of profit? E.g. in CSGO you could pull skins that are worth 100s of dollars... and then sell them on 3rd party sites.

Also the rare skin itself can be the profit because you get a higher status and prestige within your peers.

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#43
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have now created a definition where buying a ticket to a movie that you may or may not enjoy is a form of gambling. The appropriate comparison would be buying a ticket to sit down and watch a movie, you don't get to choose the movie though, you have a chance to see the movie you want but there are maybe 9 other movies that you don't want to watch. Maybe the movie you want to watch is super popular and you've se…

No, that would not be the appropriate comparison at all. That is the comparison that is more similar to loot boxes, but not to the definition you have decided upon. Loot boxes give you variable entertainment, but for that to be gambling you have now defined entertainment value as the element of prize. Gambling requires chance, prize and consideration. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e7b39fc2-501e... At…

> Loot boxes give you variable entertainment, but for that to be gambling you have now defined entertainment as the element of prize

Variable entertainment? Then a lottery scratch card is "variable entertainment", whatever that is supposed to be.

As is I can't distinguish a scratchcard from a lootbox except one has some regulation. They have a feature prize that is the reason for purchase, they have small odds of achieving the feature/promoted prize (Game loot boxes frequently don't give the actual odds), they cost real currency, they can give something of value.

Do you then claim that a scratch card is not gambling?

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#44

The same arguments could apply to physical card packs (e.g. MtG cards) sold at tabletop gaming stores. Yet nobody seems to mind there?

I guess buying physical cards is not so addictive that anyone would pay attention. In mobile games, everything is set up for you to make repetitive purchases in the hope of winning bigger: your credit card is on file, the design of the boxes echoes casinos, etc.

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#46

The same arguments could apply to physical card packs (e.g. MtG cards) sold at tabletop gaming stores. Yet nobody seems to mind there?

thank you. I've been saying it is nothing new... baseball/hockey/MtG/Pokemon cards are essentially the exact same.

as long as you aren't hiding game changing content in loot boxes (ie. all skins or something) I think they are perfectly fine.

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#47
The lootbox mechanic can be easily disguised without making it seem like gambling: 1.Buy lots in-game currency with cash or grind X hours for it. 2.Buy "A ticket to dungeon Y" with in-game currency. 3.The dungeon has a boss that is essentially a easy to kill walking lootbox. Tada, all gambling regulations bypassed. If you want to play loot-centric games this is your choice. All MMOs that revolve around items and loot will bypass the "lootbox" ban with a system as described above or better. (for the record, this system is actually in widespread use in Asia-based MMOs)

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#48

The same arguments could apply to physical card packs (e.g. MtG cards) sold at tabletop gaming stores. Yet nobody seems to mind there?

This point comes up a lot when discussing loot boxes.

Essentially, it's a matter of practicality and extent of impact on the public. Industry regulation with regards to some widespread practice is usually the final step of an extended period of failure to self-regulate [the practice that is producing some undesired side-effect].

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#49
post #13

Maybe nit-picky, but this is one place (the title here I'm talking about) a properly choosen dash would've saved me a couple seconds or so. When I was reading this, I thought first to myself, what is a crap-loot box, only to understand later that the endash there stood for a semicolon. But endash is for word pairs (i.e. black--white, on--of); here, an emdash would be more appropriate.

There's nothing wrong per se with using the dash, at least if you get the spacing right. If you use a dash as a punctuation you should either use spaces or - as you said - the correct glyph.

I'd say otherwise. It's not like it's really important here, but in a book, that would be a very bright sign of amateurishness to me. Just like with sans serif dotless `i', `n' and `m' the only difference is not the number of the loops, the same with the hyphen, endash and emdash, they mean different things. Hyphen compounds words or breaks them across the line break, endash connects them in logical relations, and an emdash can stand for a colon or a pair of parantheses, indicating a subordinate clause that serves as an aside, generally. When these are mixed up, parsing the text becomes harder. It's not much of a trouble here in an internet title, but when this kinds of misuse appear in a long, difficult period in some rather complex text, it can end up consuming too much time.

Re: Loot boxes are obviously gambling

#50

Most games contain calculated random rewards or else the game would be boring and predictable. However to call this gambling it's quite a stretch as you can't cash out. Whoever decided to make those "boxes" look like slot machines spinning brought it upon themselves.

In many games you can cash out, either above board (steam marketplace) or in the grey/black market. But even then, does it necessarily matter? Things of value still have value, and digital goods still have value. People pay cash money for software constantly and we don't question that, we believe that software can have tangible real-world value, sometimes considerably. If someone gifted you a copy of Photoshop or AutoCAD etc. you wouldn't think of that as valueless. The same is true in entertainment products too, and just as with professional software it's a matter of enforced artificial scarcity.
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