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Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

nytimes.com

261–270 of 324 posts

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is an exceptional country that has a political system far removed from the rest of the world. Democracy in Switzerland is so direct that there is a much higher level of engagement of the voters with the issues at stake. You can't take something that works in Switzerland out of that context and then apply it to some other country with the arguement 'it works in Switzerland'.

Of course you can. The above narrative clearly implied that unions are the motor of social progress while it is blantantly false. Economic development is what brings social progress. And the richest countries in the world are the ones with the best working conditions, regardless of unions power.

> Economic development is what brings social progress.

Not necessarily. Economic development can be limited to the owners of the companies whilst exploiting the employees. That is what gave rise to unionization, it was a reaction to abusive practices.

That unions later on became self sustaining and that they work against the interest of some of the people that are employed (seniority system for instance) has nothing to do with why they exist in the first place.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#262
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK (not France) and I make ~3050EUR a month (pre tax), I take home after tax ~2400EUR. I've been making money from selling code since 1996 and a full time developer over a decade. While my salary would be low in London (I'd be worth at least another 10-15K down there) in the North of England and particularly where I live that gives me an excellent standard of living, rent on a decent sized two bed is US Sa…

"Purchasing power parity" is extremely important for comparing these things, especially when it comes to housing. I get the impression that Silicon Valley is a place where $100k isn't quite enough to not have to share accomodation. It's certainly the case that London-weighted salaries don't make up for London-weighted house prices. One of these days remote working will start to make a difference in this inequality.

Wouldn't one of the primary effects of remote work be to put downward pressure on salaries in high cost of living areas?

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#263
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hourly contractor, so you don't get any of the social safety net, you have to arrange your own pension, no pay on holiday, no sick days, no company car, no company laptop. You have to take care of all that yourself. A little calculation for your average senior developer in a corporate for-profit environment. On average you can do about 1850 billable hours a year, which means you are taking 7 weeks off for holiday, il…

Is it really that common for French developers to get a company car? What on earth is it for? Driving around in meatspace to meet clients for consulting-firm type gigs?

I was talking about the Netherlands. Here, a company car is a normal perk for consultancy developers. Even the type of consultants that work 9-to-5 at the same customer for a couple of years and only have to drive to and from the customer. But they are usually allowed to use the car for private use, once they pay a monthly company car tax (100-300 euro for a normal car).

But other tech companies are also starting to give away company cars as part of the compensation package, to attract developers.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#264
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is below France median salary. If you think you can get away with that, you either : - Have developers that are actually not that good - Have good developers that will realise that you are vastly underpaying them and will jump ship Salaries in France are lower than in the US, but if you think good developers are settling for remunerations below the median salary of the country they live in, you will get a wake u…

Median income is 1772€ per month.[1] According to [2], 2500€ is top 85%, way higher than median! (Numbers from 2013 and sources in french but I guess it is understandable for everyone. I expect salaries to have slightly increased in the last 5 years but not moving by +40%) [1] https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1370897 [2] https://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/salaire-mensuel-net-...

I think the 2500 € is before income taxes, whereas 1772€ is after the income tax

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently helped a friend launch a French subsidiary. It is a pain. First, you must pay a lawyer or formation agent to write and register your by-laws. Next, you must seek an introduction to a bank manager. With that secured, you get to draft a book report of a business plan. This is tedious and pointless. Once completed, the bank manager reviews it. (They will also ask for lots of personal documents, each requiring e…

> Meanwhile, in Delaware More worryingly for the French, it’s as easy as it is in Delaware in other nearby EU countries, and cross-border EU commerce is easier than cross-state commerce in the US

> and cross-border EU commerce is easier than cross-state commerce in the US

I'm curious where you get this impression. Cross-border commerce is very lightly regulated in the US. For most industries, you literally have to put zero thought into the matter.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#266
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing is that you can get away with paying a good software developer only €2500 per month. You can get four French developers for the price of one American.

nope. 30k a year is the salary of a junior developer after employee taxes, and it's the low end of the spectrum. A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer.

> A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer.

It depends on the company, as a junior I'm only getting 36k/year, before income taxes.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do new people get in? Vitamin F, for family and relations. If you can go through a company and alot of people have the same name, you strt to grasp how such systems work. It really limits how far and where you can go to whoever your parents and family had connections to.

Helps to goto ENA :-) though the ENA students we had at BT where uniformly great

ENA is a shit school that has been producing pre-formated political cronies since its creation.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#268
post #49
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep you've highlighted the main issues here. Kidnapping a CEO because the company isn't making any money and shutting its doors is the culmination of an ultra-unionised population. Don't get me wrong, unions were vital in the 40-70's as there was a clear abuse of the workforce. But today, the workforce can't wrap their heads around how a balance sheet works. And all those social laws make hiring and firing very hard,…

Abuse of the workforce didn't start in 1940 and end in 1979. Some labor innovations you may enjoy: - Weekends (40 hour week) - Minimum wage - No child labor - Workers compensation - Not being massacred by your employer¹ Don't be so glib about the necessity of unions -- the Fair Labor Standards Act was written with blood. ¹ See, e.g. , the Ludlow Massacre, the Thibodaux Massacre, Battle of Blair Mountain.

The unions in France are currently crapping our transportation system with their unlimited strike 2 days out of 5, all because the unions are clinging to their power. Unions in France has stopped caring about workers a long time ago, they just want to have unionized worker in order to get their (and the gov's) money.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#269
post #32
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep you've highlighted the main issues here. Kidnapping a CEO because the company isn't making any money and shutting its doors is the culmination of an ultra-unionised population. Don't get me wrong, unions were vital in the 40-70's as there was a clear abuse of the workforce. But today, the workforce can't wrap their heads around how a balance sheet works. And all those social laws make hiring and firing very hard,…

There needs to be a large safety net for people to fall back on, and then companies should be free to hire/fire as needed. Right now we have the gig economy trying to extract blood from a stone, and dinosaur unions that are inflexible, basically two extremes.

And (in France), there is also a large social safety net, which is near UBI-level.

Re: Macron Vowed to Make France a ‘Startup Nation.’ Is It Getting There?

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kidnapping a CEO because the company isn't making any money and shutting its doors is the culmination of an ultra-unionised population. I've heard about 'bossnapping' - is it literally as described? How on earth does this not end in bloodshed? If someone tried to kidnap me I would be immediately fighting for my life. Do the Police do hostage rescue? How are people not getting hurt?

Because it's mostly a stage play. My father was the lead of Human Resources (don't know how it translates in English) in a bank. He was once hold for a night during a strike, with 3 other persons. The union leader told him "It's not you sir, we like you as a person, but it's what you represents that we hold here". So they ordered pizzas and managed to sleep on coaches and were "freed" the next day. No one was hurt. H…

Well, there's a manager at Air France that lost his shirt in that type of labor dispute; it does not always end up peacefully.
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