Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

seattletimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 278 posts

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#121

Post by krrrh »

jesusthatsgreat wrote: post #65
mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the go…

Facebook and Snap became part of most people’s lives within a few years. Bitcoin has been around for 10, and aside from trading bitcoin, has found very limited use. That’s what makes it different. Every prediction for what Bitcoin would be good for, and what would justify its price has failed to come to fruition.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#123

Post by sireat »

jesusthatsgreat wrote: post #65
mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the go…

Shares give you a stake in a productive(hopefully) enterprise, cryptocurrency does not give you anything but a token.

This is the problem that Buffett has with cryptocurrencies.

When you buy shares in a company you are buying claims to its future earnings at least in theory. Theory being that should the company not serve shareholder needs you can force the company to distribute the earnings/dissolve/merge etc etc. (Not going into the whole modern abomination to strip lesser shareholders of their rights to vote as Google, Facebook, Snap have done with their tiered stocks).

When you are buying Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency and yes that means ICOs too you are buying digital tokens with no claims to anything besides being a proof of having that token. It is solely 'castles in the air' which Keynes so long ago stated regarding stock market but in the stock market it is not the sole factor.

In some ways cryptocurrency is closer to regular currency but not backed by the government's mandate to receive taxes in said currency.

In other ways cryptocurrency is closer to tulips,gold,MagicTheGathering cards in that the value is based on something that some number of people agree on(ie the market).

Except cryptocurrency has no utility besides being a token, wherein tulips, gold and MagicTheGathering cards possess some utility outside being a token of exchange.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#124

Post by tass »

zbentley wrote: post #74
tass wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds good to people who don’t understand how mining works. Since this argument has been made however, they could make local prices contingent on number of jobs. If you consume x power employing less than y local employees, pay the export rate.

In my limited understanding, that sounds like a highly unusual type of regulation by US standards. Are there any other practices/industries regulated in similar ways?

I’m not sure, though not allowing “crypto mining” specifically is also pretty unusual.

In this way, they can protect their power industry and still remain attractive to other businesses who might bring other benefits to the area without having to redefine who is and isn’t allowed.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#125

Post by jldugger »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #56
Havoc wrote: post #20

Easy...increase rates and set off profits directly against municipal levies. That way the average person on the street doesn't lose, yet the miners are encouraged to get lost.

This. Your first 1,000kWh in a month are at a reduced rate. Each kWh thereafter is at a premium rate. Easy.

This solves the rogue operator problem, but doesn't solve the bit where an operator comes in expecting to build a large mining installation. Even if they paid something close to the export premium (perhaps lower due to diminished transmission losses), the asks are larger than the utility currently provides.

This leaves the utility with a dilemma. Bitcoin miners can up and move pretty easily, but the hydro dams are stuck for life. If somewhere cheaper pops up, or if a double spend attack causes a bitocalpyse, the utility has little recourse but to pass on the costs to remaining consumers.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#126

Post by teawrecks »

mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

It's irrelevant what the customer wants to use the electricity for. The increase in electric cars is already challenging how we manage our power grids. If it's in demand, charge more.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#127

Post by lele92n »

josu wrote: post #106
mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999: - people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of…

You’ve generalized to a point of nonsense, I’m afraid

Amazon and Pets.com didn’t possess truly novel tech, to a trained eye

I don’t think truly novel tech matters much to most people.

I think ease of utilitarian life is good enough

We don’t need the energy sucking monstrosity that are the data centers we have if we looked at different models of commerce

This is just getting people to be tribal over something that appears magical but will fade out

Goodhart’s Law, Buffets Institutional imperative, and similar ideas, will win out. Human quest for novelty will end bitcoin and its tribal urges for nostalgia and fetishizing their LEGO train

Humanity doesn’t care to ogle dead men’s workshops showcasing their individual brilliance for long

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#128

Post by Rjevski »

rdiddly wrote: post #105
Rjevski wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, but the main point of zoning laws is to prevent disturbances (like you can’t run a shop or a bar in a residential building for obvious noise and crowd concerns), but I don’t see why mining would be problematic. I’d rather have miners in the building rather than the drug-dealing kids that attract police every other week or so. Mining is very peaceful, you just install a piece of hardware and let it run (…

The point of zoning laws is different depending on whom you ask. Those most strongly in favor of mixed-use urbanism might even say there's no point. But in the broadest sense, they're supposed to prevent conflicts between land uses. And crypto mining at any useful/profitable scale conflicts with an electrical infrastructure designed for lower residential loads. To allow mining safely, someone has to pay to upgrade th…

Aren’t energy prices supposed to pay for that? In France for example, in addition to per kWh rate you also pay a subscription charge corresponding to the maximum amount of current you can draw from the grid. The miners who need more power would pay for higher current and thus pay for the upgrades to the grid.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#129

Post by momentmaker »

mattmanser wrote: post #118
jesusthatsgreat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the go…

Facebook actually makes money. That's the difference.

What is money really? Is it just people's attention? Isn't that what Facebook is capturing then selling off to advertisers?

Isn't that what Bitcoin is doing as well? Capturing people's attention as well as development resources (minds/energy) from some of the smartest people right now?

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#130

Post by dahdum »

dvlsg wrote: post #97
mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

I find myself hoping it implodes sooner rather than later. Purely selfish on my part - but I would like to be able to buy a new graphics card some day. I'm already dreading the insane scramble when Nvidia announces their new cards (likely this summer).

Crypto and the AI boom are funneling money to Nvidia for R&D and to ramp up production.

If you want advancement in graphics cards to come more quickly, it’s not a bad trend.

Post reply on HN