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Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

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Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#101

Post by bdcravens »

hyperbovine wrote: post #59
bdcravens wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize it's easy to speak in a derogatory manner about something we don't like and hope it will go away, but I think that ignores the reality: for now, and for several years, a lot of people have made a lot of money. It may be an opportunity, or it may be a problem that needs addressing, but after 9+ years, I think there comes a point where it's no longer a sinkhole.

A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Color me skeptical.

Don't really understand where your question is coming from. Are you implying that exchanges aren't real? That people never cash out?

Even so, how much wealth in this world is based in "actual, hard currency"? How many developers have unvested options? How much of Musk's wealth is in the bank as opposed to tied up in his businesses? I think you're trying to stand up a strawman.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#102

Post by tinus_hn »

notatoad wrote: post #93
dullgiulio wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, aren't there laws that regulate the usage of buildings? Where I live (EU) you definitely cannot host mining racks in living premises. Just to get the higher power links you get questions asked.

how does that sort of regulation actually work? You can obviously have a personal computer. surely you can have a few computers. at what point does the government say you have too many computers?

That’s why there are judges.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#103

Post by Itaxpica »

briandear wrote: post #84
syshum wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, In America we still have freedom... ;) So no the government will not regulate if I have 42U rack (like do right now behind me as a Homelab no mining) Getting more power to your place is between the power company and property owner not the government, I can get as much power feeds as the power company will sell me, and generally they will only ask question related to saftey. Want 400amp service to your Garage, no…

Why is this being downvoted? Are there people on HN that actually think the government should tell people what they can do in the privacy of their own home? What a bunch of totalitarians. Perhaps the government should be able to dictate who people can sleep with or what media they are allowed to consume. Why are there so many people comfortable with letting governments dictate freedoms when those freedoms aren’t harm…

Did you read the part in the article where server racks set up in apartments not designed for the load are starting electrical fires in residential areas? Kind of a weird definition of “not harming anyone”.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#104

Post by latexr »

skybrian wrote: post #92
abecedarius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patches on top of patches are not the only way to maintain software.

Some commits are much better than others, but they're all commits.

Sounds like something out of a motivational poster. I say this positively.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#105

Post by rdiddly »

Rjevski wrote: post #55
dullgiulio wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, aren't there laws that regulate the usage of buildings? Where I live (EU) you definitely cannot host mining racks in living premises. Just to get the higher power links you get questions asked.

I don’t know, but the main point of zoning laws is to prevent disturbances (like you can’t run a shop or a bar in a residential building for obvious noise and crowd concerns), but I don’t see why mining would be problematic. I’d rather have miners in the building rather than the drug-dealing kids that attract police every other week or so. Mining is very peaceful, you just install a piece of hardware and let it run (…

The point of zoning laws is different depending on whom you ask. Those most strongly in favor of mixed-use urbanism might even say there's no point. But in the broadest sense, they're supposed to prevent conflicts between land uses. And crypto mining at any useful/profitable scale conflicts with an electrical infrastructure designed for lower residential loads. To allow mining safely, someone has to pay to upgrade that infrastructure. Otherwise you're looking at overloading a circuit, maybe even burning the building down.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#106

Post by josu »

mindfulplay wrote: post #33

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so…

This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999:

- people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards.

- thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...)

- to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of the 20th century.

Many people were left holding pets.com stocks, but others were left holding Amazon stocks.

Most of the things that you point out are truisms that the people that have been in the bitcoin space for a few years also see. I would suggest you make an effort, and try to see through all the bullshit projects or outright scams, and you will see that there is real value in what bitcoin and a handful of other projects are trying to build. If you want to avoid the current noise, read what cypherpunks were writing about in 1998: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1998/12/msg00203.html

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#107

Post by jsjohnst »

Rjevski wrote: post #55
dullgiulio wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, aren't there laws that regulate the usage of buildings? Where I live (EU) you definitely cannot host mining racks in living premises. Just to get the higher power links you get questions asked.

I don’t know, but the main point of zoning laws is to prevent disturbances (like you can’t run a shop or a bar in a residential building for obvious noise and crowd concerns), but I don’t see why mining would be problematic. I’d rather have miners in the building rather than the drug-dealing kids that attract police every other week or so. Mining is very peaceful, you just install a piece of hardware and let it run (…

> Mining is very peaceful

Until you factor in the risk of fire, environmental impact, and the fact that when bitcoin goes bust which will ultimately happen (nothing lasts forever), the county will be left holding the bag in a similar fashion to other major industries of old.

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#108

Post by apo »

Hanging over May’s hearing was the fate of the Basin’s last big electrical customer: the Alcoa aluminum smelter, which employed more than 400 workers before it was idled several years ago thanks to competition from cheaper Chinese imports. Cryptocurrency mining won’t replace all those jobs — the process is heavily automated. But backers insist that a local mining sector, if allowed to grow, will attract other ancillary services, such as software development, and ultimately provide the Basin with some of the tech-fueled prosperity that Seattle has enjoyed.

There's a lot to chew on here. The Alcoa plant story is practically a cliche. Yet another instance of what a world overflowing with cheap stuff looks like.

The loss of the Alcoa plant means an ever bigger oversupply of electricity. Chelan County seems to have nothing to fill the gap. Why not sell the surplus to a buyer who will use the power locally?

Who decides that an aluminum manufacturer is any more or less a legitimate business than an Bitcoin miner?

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#109

Post by jsjohnst »

briandear wrote: post #80
jimnotgym wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. In the UK you would have to apply to the local authority for 'change of use' planning consent. Even changing between different classes of commercial use requires consent. This gets posted on the gate outside and in the local press. Anyone is free to write in and make their point known. Finally an official makes a recommendation to a committee of elected representatives at an open meeting. If approved…

And that’s ridiculous. Me working on my computer in my house paying the asking rate for the electricity is really none of the business of my neighbors. It isn’t like someone is running a hair salon or a day care center where there could be traffic/disruption concerns.

You don’t think the risk of fire and/or localized grid overload from drawing much more power than designed for a residential property is of no concern to the neighbors?

Re: Bitcoin backlash as ‘miners’ stress power grids in Central Washington

#110

Post by bdcravens »

slivym wrote: post #64
bdcravens wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize it's easy to speak in a derogatory manner about something we don't like and hope it will go away, but I think that ignores the reality: for now, and for several years, a lot of people have made a lot of money. It may be an opportunity, or it may be a problem that needs addressing, but after 9+ years, I think there comes a point where it's no longer a sinkhole.

I think that is a really bad line of logic. There are lots of things that have been around for a long time and make some people plenty of money that are bad things. Pyramid schemes fit your definition - should I start buying in? The opposite way to pose this is: Cryptocurrencies have been around for 9+ years, and there has been literally 0 use for it apart from conning rubes on the internet. The important thing to as…

I'm not arguing necessarily for its utility or intrinsic worth, just that it's entrenched and far from the inevitable house of cards that detractors wish for.

Call it gambling if you will. What is the intrinsic value of a game of blackjack? None, yet an entire industry is propped up by it.

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