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GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

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Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#581

Post by roel_v »

taysic wrote: post #520
roel_v wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. That's entirely orthogonal to the question whether or not the person who's server it is, is affected by the GDPR though.

But if that person could get sent to jail for that, then I don't see why they would file a complaint.

I don't even see in the law whether or why the dpa would disclose the identity of the complainant. Maybe there are procedural situations where it would happen, I haven't really thought about it. I think people are too hung up on a specific person making a complaint. It's the dpa that will take action, probably removed a few steps from the initial complainant(s). This is not Law and Order style legal proceedings.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#582

Post by mattmanser »

methodover wrote: post #539
taysic wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an ad-free version but you have to provide one without personalized ads being used. Non-personalized ads make far less money than personalized.

I see no reading of the GDPR that would lead you to that conclusion... The GDPR requires many things, but there's nothing in there that says you can't reject the customer if they don't opt-in to the things you want them to opt-in to. Do you have a citation from the GDPR that leads you to believe that I am wrong on that point?

Yes there is. It's all over it. I'm not going to even bother linking to it.

Making consent a precondition of service is an illegal method of obtaining consent, unless the service relies on that consent. So a run tracking app may legitimately say consent to track location is a precondition, because they need that data to actually deliver their service. Facebook and Google though? Obviously not. Also the run tracking app can't then sell that data to an ad network without permission, and that can't be a precondition, because that's not why the data is being supplied.

Facebook and Google may try and argue they need it in court. We will see what happens, but I hope they lose and we can finish this dark, Orwellian chapter of the internet sooner rather than later.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#583

Post by forapurpose »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #177
kartan wrote: post #140

Business don't comply with regulations because it is easy, but because it's needed to do business. If a service didn't had a big user base in Europe, most countries don't speak English, it may be cheaper to remove the service. The New York Times or The New Yorker that even have physical copies available in Europe work as usual. I work in a gambling company and this is our day to day business. To enter a new market me…

Regulations tend to favor incumbents, decreasing competition, and thereby increase monopoly and creating central hubs of systemic risk. There is no free lunch with one-size-fits-all rule making. Unfortunately regulators think there is.

> Regulations tend to favor incumbents, decreasing competition, and thereby increase monopoly and creating central hubs of systemic risk

I realize that I've heard that before, but what is that based on?

> There is no free lunch with one-size-fits-all rule making. Unfortunately regulators think there is.

I've never heard of regulators, at least in the U.S., not considering the cost of regulations. It would be hard to avoid in the legal rule-making process.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#584

Post by forapurpose »

bmelton wrote: post #341
tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

> it's hard to make the claim that egg regulations in America are more effective than those in Europe

It is? What is the data?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#585

Post by olivierduval »

chrshawkes wrote: post #508
rock_hard wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or how to pay the people who create the content

It seems many people think content worth enjoying is somehow created and delivered freely.

Mmmm... and what about non-targeted ads ?

I mean: GDPR didn't forbid money. Not even advertising. Only using personal informations without explicit consent... Please, don't be too ridiculous and stop watching FoxNews :-D

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#586

Post by forapurpose »

fixermark wrote: post #430
tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

You can make fun of it, but there's a reason that Silicon Valley venture capital goes to software engineering (where regulations have generally been lower) while significant disruption in the automotive space is coming from incumbents and one company founded by a guy with a net worth of $18 billion.

> there's a reason that Silicon Valley venture capital goes to software engineering (where regulations have generally been lower) while significant disruption in the automotive space is coming from incumbents and one company founded by a guy with a net worth of $18 billion.

Maybe it's because the auto industry is far more capital-intensive than software. I don't see anyone taking on incumbents in capital-intensive IT businesses, such as cloud services (do you want to compete with Google, Amazon, and Microsoft with your VC money?), or in software, operating systems in entrenched markets (desktop and smartphone).

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#587

Post by forapurpose »

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #272
tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

>I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents. I think by going to cars to prove your point proves how ridiculous regulation for websites are. For some reason there exists a group of people that believe that websites like facebook need regulations that are as…

> People die from cars that are badly designed. People don't die from facebook (yes I'm sure you can find some contrived example.)

I think the public, and much of HN, disagrees and is beginning to believe that the lack of privacy is undermining democracy, liberty, and human rights.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#588

Post by methodover »

azernik wrote: post #557
methodover wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reading of the GDPR that would lead you to that conclusion... The GDPR requires many things, but there's nothing in there that says you can't reject the customer if they don't opt-in to the things you want them to opt-in to. Do you have a citation from the GDPR that leads you to believe that I am wrong on that point?

https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/ "Consent is presumed not to be freely given if it does not allow separate consent to be given to different personal data processing operations despite it being appropriate in the individual case, or if the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is dependent on the consent despite such consent not being necessary for such performance" This is one of the co…

Recital 43 is a fair objection -- I should rephrase what I said in light of it. I should have said:

> "The GDPR requires many things, but there's nothing in there that says you can't reject the customer if they don't opt-in to the things you need them to opt-in to in order to provide the service."

The last sentence of recital 43 says that consent can only be given to those personal data processing operations that are necessary for the performance of a contract/provision of the service.

In Google and Facebook's case, collection of personal data for the purpose of targeted ads is necessary for the service because targeted ads provides the source of revenue for the service's operation.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#589

Post by bitmapbrother »

flohofwoe wrote: post #48

Alternatively there's this: https://eu.usatoday.com/ No ads, no tracking, no cookies, not even Javascript. Just plain HTML+CSS and JPEG images. The whole front page is around 650 KByte, and by far most of this is in the image files. As a result the page looks very clean and loads very fast. This is what all news web sites should look like, not just for EU readers (although I fear that this is just a temporary solutio…

>No ads, no tracking, no cookies, not even Javascript. Just plain HTML+CSS and JPEG images.

Are we viewing the same page? Not only do I see JavaScript in the EU page, but I also see this in the code:

"trackingServer":"gannett.hb.omtrdc.net"},"market":"gpapermobileapp","trackingServer":"repdata.usatoday.com","trackingServerSecure":"srepdata.usatoday.com"},"ads"

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#590

Post by olivierduval »

repolfx wrote: post #402
flohofwoe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything's fine if they add generic, non-targeted ads that are completely under control of the news publisher, hosted on their servers, don't track users, don't use cookies. Just like print media and TV does since forever.

The problem is that those ads could not be pay-per-click because you need cookies, javascripts and other tricks to combat clickfraud and impression spam. If that USA Today site sticks around and adds advertising, it will presumably be low quality inventory like the internet used to be flooded with - casinos, punch the monkey etc.

Cookie & javascript aren't forbidden...

You can have sensible context-sensitive advertising without problem with GDPR. You just can't target a specific reader using its behaviour

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