GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules • Hacker News Board

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#481

Post by Grue3 » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #186

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because bitter HN users will call you shady if you don’t fully comply with their pet law, no matter how ambiguous or onerous :)

This "pet law" is the law of 500 million people, has been in effect for two years (two years was a grace period to comply with it), and exists exactly because shady businesses didn't even comply with existing data protection laws. It's not "bitter HN users". It's bitter European citizens. No wonder that it's mostly American companies who have the most trouble complying with it.

China has a billion people. I'm not seeing people urging everyone to comply with Chinese censorship laws for some reason.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#482

Post by pilsetnieks » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

lima wrote: post #304

rdlecler1 wrote: post #138

They claim that everyone had a lot of time, but what about the 1-3 person startup that’s been around for 4-5 years who is just getting by and didn’t have the resources to re-engineer their entire application or to write up a complex privacy policy or hire an EU Representative (Yes, apparently that is required as well). If the EU does clamp down on forced consent I think the long tail of small startups and publication…

> hire an EU Representative It's called Data Protection Officer and you only need to appoint one if processing personal data is your core business, which is reasonable. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... And yes, I expect the EU to enforce the consent rules. It's very central to the GDPR.

Not quite. The DPO is a different subject matter.

Article 27 stipulates that data processors outside the EU should designate a representative, a whipping boy, if you will. The representative should be subject to enforcement proceedings in the event of non-compliance by the controller or processor.

In most cases it would probably be the same person fulfilling both the representative and DPO functions but those are actually two separate roles.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#483

Post by amaccuish » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #359

alkonaut wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully what will happen is that it will be more expensive to advertise and publishers will earn more on dumber ads Obviously if ads are less targeted then they may be less effective so advertisers will make less on ads that cost more. This will hurt their bottom line, which in turn will make the products we buy more expensive. But that's exactly the end goal. I want to pay for things (information, products) with m…

>Obviously if ads are less targeted then they may be less effective so advertisers will make less on ads that cost more. This will hurt their bottom line, which in turn will make the products we buy more expensive. But that's exactly the end goal. I want to pay for things (information, products) with more money rather than with slightly less money and all my integrity. I'm sure you considered all the poor people acro…

So us having our right to privacy using paywalls, means that we deprive those less well off of valuable information. Or everyone forfeits their right to privacy for free stuff. I'm sure there's a middle ground here.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#484

Post by semigroupoid » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #429

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because of a deep cultural divide. EU users who are big fans of the GDPR genuinely admire the law, both its intent and implementation, and also have a very positive view of the government. They believe that regulators will try to help companies comply, and will only fine as a last resort. Whereas in the US, we tend to be fairly skeptical of government. And as a consequence, since EU users think this law…

Bear in mind GDPR seems to have become some sort of totemic issue for the small minority of people in Europe who are true-blue died in the wool ideological supporters of the EU project. They are flooding GDPR discussions with these sorts of views. A good give away is they say "speaking as a European" or use the term "EU citizen" (there is no such thing, the EU as an institution does not have citizens or issue passpor…

EU citizenship was introduced as part of the Maastricht treaty in 1992. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_...

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#485

Post by Grue3 » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #338

yAnonymous wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest hypothetical question... my file hosting website is in New Zealand, my servers are in New Zealand. Why would I care about US laws? Asking for a friend.

Can you explain to me the point of this comment? I'm too dense.

Look up Kim Dotcom/Megaupload.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#486

Post by taysic » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

oldcynic wrote: post #463

fixermark wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make fun of it, but there's a reason that Silicon Valley venture capital goes to software engineering (where regulations have generally been lower) while significant disruption in the automotive space is coming from incumbents and one company founded by a guy with a net worth of $18 billion.

That would be the self same reason the net is starting to attract regulation. Some of that significant disruption basically involves extending a middle finger to the laws and regulations of the country they want to do business in. I might call it taking the piss. Taking the piss with laws and employment rights such as Deliveroo etc, or taking the piss with user data and personal privacy. We'll be left with some of th…

Conversely, people have also seen how some laws - like those protecting taxi drivers in this example - did nothing to help consumers. Not all regulations are being missed.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#487

Post by openIce » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #473

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you do not value my privacy False equivalence. You can do nothing untoward with user data and still not be compliant.

Exactly. The most basic/outrageous example: anyone in the EU who installs Apache and leaves it in its default configuration which logs all page visits indefinitely is now a criminal. Spin up a DO/Linode/etc. instance and apt-get install apache2? You're now theoretically liable for a 20 million Euro fine.

This is the most retarded comment I have read today. Literally everything you say is false

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#488

Post by ryanwaggoner » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #473

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you do not value my privacy False equivalence. You can do nothing untoward with user data and still not be compliant.

Exactly. The most basic/outrageous example: anyone in the EU who installs Apache and leaves it in its default configuration which logs all page visits indefinitely is now a criminal. Spin up a DO/Linode/etc. instance and apt-get install apache2? You're now theoretically liable for a 20 million Euro fine.

Oh, it's much worse than that :)

Do the same, but from any country in the world, and make sure your welcome page has multiple languages, including some EU ones. Now you're specifically targeting EU users and you're liable for up to $20 million euros.

The response from GDPR fans is that: a) regulators would never levy such a fine, or b) they can't enforce it, or even c) that of course you should be fined because you're a filthy scammer who is stealing people's data and violating their human rights!

But all that misses the point: in what universe is it reasonable to even make such a claim to begin with? And why should I have to trust that the regulators will be more reasonable than the law requires, or that they won't be able to enforce what they'd like to do? And why should I have to comply because you sent me your info voluntarily??

Is there something that makes the internet different here? If someone in the EU puts some personal info in an envelope and mails it to me and I never get around to opening it and it just sits on a stack with other junk mail, am I now violating their human rights by keeping the info they voluntarily sent to me?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#489

Post by methodover » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #364

Facebook, Google, Instagram and WhatsApp are accused of forcing users to consent to targeted advertising to use the services. Privacy group noyb.eu, led by activist Max Schrems, said people were not being given a "free choice". I mean, that just isn't a valid complaint IMO. You have a choice -- you can not use Facebook, or not use Google, or not use Instagram, or not use WhatsApp. If you're using a "free" service tha…

They don't, and this argument by Max Schrems is ridiculous. There is no provision in the GDPR that says if you fund your site with ads, you now have to provide an ad-free version.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#490

Post by ljm » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #404

kazagistar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason for the failure of those other models is their need to compete with an exploitative ad driven model. When you remove the lowest common denominator, you make it is easier for the market to accomplish something better.

I've never felt exploited by advertisers. Nor do most other people, otherwise they would keep their internet usage to a minimum when what we see is the exact opposite. Please stop attacking services and sites that hundreds of millions or billions of people find useful because of your own over the top histrionics.

There are more histrionics in this reply than the person you’re responding to.

The parent makes an excellent point: it’s easy to argue the other models (micro transactions, subscriptions, paywalls) failed because they were in competition with an industry that has safely operated with little to no regulation for a decade or two.

The ad industry in this situation has an insane advantage because it can make money from end-users without them even being aware that they are involved in a transaction. They don’t have to see a banner ad in order for dozens or hundreds of other businesses to learn about them.

There is no explicit contract between the website and the user in the way that there is when you agree to pay the business money in exchange for the value it offers.

So GDPR levels the playing field by removing that advantage. If an advertiser or another business runs above board they don’t have a problem. More to the point, if they can convince a user to opt in, then they have a serious value proposition to the user too.

Advertising itself is an easy and almost fallacious target. People know about adverts so they use Adblock. People have no idea what a business will do with all of the data that reaches their servers without any JS required.