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Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

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Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#261

Post by dahart »

abritinthebay wrote: post #254
dahart wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that iPhones account for just 35% of US mobile phones [1] and only around 15% of phone shipments worldwide [2], this is in no way monopolistic. What is monopolistic to you? Does it need to be over 50%? I don't think economists define it that way, they only argue that one company has excessive influence in a market, which means more power than the other companies in that market. That does seem to be true of Ap…

That reporter is right though: Walmart isn’t a monopoly. Not generally. It can have a local monopoly of course (and often does in many more rural areas) but that’s not the same. I think I’ve been to a Walmart once in the last 10 years. I’m not even trying to avoid them: there’s no reason or need for me to go there and I have plenty of other (just as cheap) options. That’s not a monopoly. They’re a massive business an…

In case it wasn't clear, my point was that the percentage is not the indicator of monopoly or non-monopoly. I'm not arguing that you should agree Walmart is a monopoly.

That said, your experience and you having other purchasing options isn't the only criteria, as @s3r3nity pointed out. Being on Hacker News probably means you're not in the lower 50% of the US population socioeconomically.

Being a massive business is precisely one way Walmart might be considered a monopoly. They're not a dominant national brand, they are the single largest global brand on the planet by revenue. The fact that if Walmart closed tomorrow, it would have a significant negative impact on the US economy is alone enough to warrant asking the question. When a company is "too big to fail" that automatically puts it in the potential monopoly category.

Also, there have been anti-trust cases against Walmart, some of which Walmart has settled. So it's really not super clear cut that Walmart isn't a monopoly.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#262

Post by gehsty »

maxwell wrote: post #72
stalf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, Valve told Reuters it had disabled the in-app purchase options, and still got canned. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-apple-steam/apple-blocks-s...

But GP was 100% sure!

Haha! 50% of the time I’m right 100% of the time!

If they are blocking the app and there is absolutely no way for people to purchase and play games then I think apple are in the wrong.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#263

Post by gehsty »

DRW_ wrote: post #92
gehsty wrote: post #52

I am not really suprised by this, buying games and then play them outside of the appstore is not exactly in the spirit of the apples guidelines. This is clearly different from a remote desktop app. I'm 100% sure this would be allowed back in if they built it without the ability to make purchases... Not saying I agree with it but a Company such as Valve should know this is going to happen.

The thing is, Apple does allow this sort of thing. Look at apps like Google Play Movies. You can't buy or rent from within the app, so google doesn't get their cut - you can only buy and rent from google play movies on the website, thus bypassing Apple entirely. You can then play that content within the iOS app. All in direct competition with iTunes.

That’s what I’m saying, it would be like the audible store - no way to buy books but you can listen to them....

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#264

Post by sunshinelackof »

abritinthebay wrote: post #256
cpuguy83 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time (as an example) I have something like 150 movies I've bought on iTunes that I cannot bring to any other platform. So Apple locks-in users to their platform (as is everyone else) then they are using the control they have over their user base to lock out competition. This is the very definition of anti-competitive behavior.

And there is nothing intrinsically wrong with anti-competitive behavior . If there was then patents, copyrights, trademarks, and fit of licensing, etc would all be wrong to the same degree. Until a monopoly (or a collaborative effort by members of an oligopoly - in the case of price fixing) abuses these things we don’t care - and rightly so. Plus, when it comes to media like movies, you really should complain about t…

> If there was then patents, copyrights, trademarks, and fit of licensing, etc would all be wrong to the same degree.

Patents and copyright exist novel and interesting works and ideas for a limited amount of time. It's an obvious argument that it would be anti-competitive to allow a giant competitor to steal novel ideas from their creators without recourse. It's not obvious to me how protecting serendipity is clearly anti-competitive.

Trademarks are in no way anti-competitive. They exist to support fair business practices, in particular to prevent malicious actors from falsely claiming they represent a business. It would be anti-competitive to allow anyone to steal your trademark and sell products under it.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#265

Post by westoque »

dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

I completely agree. But on the flipside, having that control gives you a more secure and robust environment (app store) _almost_ free of spam and phising apps (Windows app store anyone?)

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#266

Post by cpuguy83 »

abritinthebay wrote: post #256
cpuguy83 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time (as an example) I have something like 150 movies I've bought on iTunes that I cannot bring to any other platform. So Apple locks-in users to their platform (as is everyone else) then they are using the control they have over their user base to lock out competition. This is the very definition of anti-competitive behavior.

And there is nothing intrinsically wrong with anti-competitive behavior . If there was then patents, copyrights, trademarks, and fit of licensing, etc would all be wrong to the same degree. Until a monopoly (or a collaborative effort by members of an oligopoly - in the case of price fixing) abuses these things we don’t care - and rightly so. Plus, when it comes to media like movies, you really should complain about t…

Patents, copyrights, trademarks etc all keep competition from from benefiting from your hard work (or stealing it) to give first to market a true advantage. This is not anti-competitive but rather things built into the system to reward investments in innovation.

If Apple had an open platform then they'd be required to compete on quality and services. Instead they lock-in users and lock-out competing services from even being able to exist in their platform. This is anti-competitive.

Note that I say this as a user with a MBP, iPhones, AppleTV, iPad, etc... I admit I would probably be fine switching to Android (for example) if I felt the quality of the platform was better without fear of not having access to other services (but IMO the quality isn't there).

Let's look within the platform itself, though. This is a platform en-composing millions upon millions of users across over a billion active devices (https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/26/10835748/apple-devices-ac...).

Apple leverages its control of the platform to give Apple services an advantage over the competition. If Apple is not careful this will almost certainly end in anti-trust litigation.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#267

Post by Zooper »

reaperducer wrote: post #251
zkomp wrote: post #63

What? I really looked forward to this. Gaming in the apple eco system is horrible already but not even be allowed to stream? Extremely stupid, Outright hostile "Business conflict"? Now Apple suddenly becomes a real obstruction in my life and ultimately an enemy. This is switch to android level of bad.

stupid... hostile... a real obstruction in my life... an enemy I think I'll clip and save this comment to demonstrate to my students the definition of an "overreaction."

I'll not save it, and continue labeling any business entity that obstructs any of my freedoms for profit as an enemy.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#268

Post by grawprog »

emodendroket wrote: post #258
cblades wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not the case. I can install any app-store app I'd like, and it can install apps on my phone. I can even download raw apk file and install them myself.

But we're talking about AdBlock specifically, which needs root privileges.

I'm not sure I understand your point...your computer also has programs that will only work with root privileges. At least it's possible to do this on an android as opposed to Apple.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#269

Post by Rexxar »

stephenr wrote: post #162

I commented two hours ago asking for the URL to be set to the canonical one not the amp one. It’s been upvoted at least 40 times, but appears at the bottom of the comments and is collapsed-by-default. What’s the deal, HN?

Because a moderator have done what you ask for and the comment is not relevant any more so he hide it too. Sometimes moderators let a message like "Done, thanks" but not always.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#270

Post by simonh »

cpuguy83 wrote: post #236
simonh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose a majority of those users are perfectly fine with it, and enjoy the benefits of a carefully curated system? The fact that Apples policies are widely known and people still buy iPhones in the millions is pretty good evidence that Apple has a much better grip on what their users prefer than you do.

At the same time (as an example) I have something like 150 movies I've bought on iTunes that I cannot bring to any other platform. So Apple locks-in users to their platform (as is everyone else) then they are using the control they have over their user base to lock out competition. This is the very definition of anti-competitive behavior.

Apple has been very clear that they would prefer to sell open formats, they managed to convince the music labels but not the video industry. So is your position that they should have refused to sell movies with those restrictions? If so, how do you reconcile that with you choosing to buy them?
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