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The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

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Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#141

Post by rangibaby »

mikekchar wrote: post #60
twblalock wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - The landscape of transit cards is confusing, and while many of them are still accepted in various places, the existence of such a wide variety is mostly a legacy thing as far as I could tell. I had a Suica card and it worked virtually everywhere I went in Japan, though I didn't venture off the beaten path. I think this is correct. I first went to Japan in 2008, and the cards you had actually mattered. I went agai…

You can use Suica almost everywhere. The reverse is not true. For example, I live in the Tokai region and have a Toica. I can't use it outside of Tokai. I think eventually these things will even out, though. I was surprised that a Passmo card I got in Tokyo and accidentally used in Tokai worked. But the golden rule in Japan -- make sure to carry enough cash in case you get into trouble :-)

Suica, Toica, etc. should work in each other’s areas now. There is a list here: http://jreast.okbiz.okwave.jp/sp/default/faq/question/show/1...

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#142

Post by 794CD01 »

marak830 wrote: post #49
quantisan wrote: post #43

I witnessed a group of 20+ Latin American tourists boarding at some station and then getting off at Shinjuku the other day. One of them held the train door with his body while all 20+ of them strolled in the train nonchalantly. Then the same door blocker proceeded to scream out instructions to the rest of the group. They did the same thing on the way out. Usually there's a smooth flow of people entering and exiting a…

There is so much here that couldn't work as it does, without the implicit assumption that everyone is going to behave politely. Hell the polite queuing after a major earthquake for water and food is absolutely astounding. The foreigners who don't try to live up to the social standards while living here should be shunned by the local gaijins.

Shunning as pseudopunishment is silly. If it's not a problem, let them be. If it is a problem, fine them or arrest them.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#143

Post by CaptainZapp »

mikekchar wrote: post #136
CaptainZapp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely that! Another example: Travelling from Tokyo to Sapporo return (the part from Hakodate to Sapporo is not covered by Shinkansen, but should be from 2030, but I digress) is more expensive than a three week train pass. If you're not strapped for cash get a pass for the green car (first class). The price difference is minimal (ca. 60K Yen vs. 80K Yen for three weeks) and it makes travelling even more amazing.…

I didn't even know there was a green car pass. That's insane! Even if you are travelling in Obon or Golden Week that will absolutely guarantee that you can travel anywhere you want to go whenever you want. I've only travelled in green car once. I'm a bit of a train nerd, but I'm also cheap so I'm always jealous! Some day I will absolutely travel on the Nozomi Shinkansen, no matter what it costs :-)

"Even if you are travelling in Obon or Golden Week that will absolutely guarantee that you can travel anywhere you want to go whenever you want."

On the Sunday at the end of golden week all Shinkansen from Hokkaido to Tokyo, with the exception of the first two trains, were completely sold out. That was two weeks in advance.

So being forced to take an early train I had to spend a night in Hokadate, which was actually quite nice in its own right. And on JR pass level I think the price difference between normal and green class is so low that it's definitly worth it.

In Switzerland first class is second class + 100 - 150%.

But generally it's true that a green car pass will get you a reservation even when all else is sold out.

"Some day I will absolutely travel on the Nozomi Shinkansen, no matter what it costs :-)"

Actually the cost is the same like for all other Shinkansens :-) The only thing is you can't use them with the rail pass.

That said my maximum wait for an eligable train upon spontaneously deciding I need a train ride was 30 minutes. But is was usually more in the 10 minute range.

Oh, and in order to totally shame some high level JR bureaucrat I have photographic evidence about not one, but two Shinkansens with a delay of 5 minutes.

Seppuku is probably the only option here.

:-)

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#144

Post by nickpsecurity »

Japanese trains are also a great example of high-assurance system development in action. If you have IEEE or ACM, you can read a personal account of each of the stages they went through for the control systems:

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1173109/

There's also some other papers that go into detail on specific techs or rollouts:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3925287_Adaptive_st...

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5207329/

https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1262517

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#145

Post by qop »

dorfsmay wrote: post #67
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #40

In my first experience with trains in Japan, I had to take a jaunt that included a leg from Nagoya to Matsusaka. The train ride was about 90 minutes, and I was anxious about knowing which station to exit. I anticipated that the signage would all be in Japanese. So I asked the station attendant in Nagoya how I'd know when to get off. He looked at my ticket and said, "The train will stop at 1:11PM. You get off." The tr…

I don't understand, isn't that how trains work everywhere? Otherwise how are the people in the next city supposed to know when they need to be there to board that train?

In a very magical place called new york, there are trains also, but legend has it that they have NEVER been on time!

Spooky!

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#146

Post by mercurysmessage »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #5

Anecdote time... Tokyo train stations kinda suck. Coming from a few weeks in Malaysia and Singapore, it was interesting to see just how little and how poorly translated English is there. (They speak Japanese and not English, but lets be honest about it being the lingua franca) It was VERY DIFFICULT to figure out how their train colors worked, how Orange gets to Blue (it's a connect, but a couple blocks away). That Gi…

The signage is quite good, and if you know the names of one or two lines it is quite simple. Also, get a sim, and just type your destinations into google, maps will do it for you.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#147

Post by mcherm »

rayiner wrote: post #77
lainga wrote: post #2

>Rail stations, whether in Japan or elsewhere, are also great places to see “nudge theory” at work. Gentle nudges, like ultrasonic deterrents to keep teenagers away with "a look of confusion or discomfort, and often a cry of urusai! (Loud!)"...?

This is great we need those everywhere.

I hear someone invented a special light which is uncomfortably hot when it interacts with darker skin, but doesn't (usually) affect those who are fair-skinned.[1] Statistics show that locations that deploy these lights have fewer minor crimes.[2]

Do you think we should deploy these lights along with the squealers? If not, then why not -- what is different?

[1] Not actually true (thank goodness). Fictional example was created for illustrative purposes only.

[2] Not actually true (because the lights aren't real). But if they were real, this would almost certainly be true. Among other things, if you drive off a percentage of the population, then it decreases the number of people, and thus the number of crimes.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#148

Post by mcherm »

jpatokal wrote: post #65
tbabb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could not say what is "expected" without knowing either the statistics of suicides in Japanese train stations, or the statistics of where installations happened. If per-station variance is high, or if the installed stations were significant outliers (or both), 84% would be perfectly within expectation. I find it very hard to believe that the color of the light in the train station would sway a person's life-and-d…

While I share your skepticism, there's is pretty solid evidence that strong white/blue light is effective in treating seasonal affective disorder, a type of depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder#Ma...

That fact along with any reason to believe that 84% of suicides are caused by SAD might help explain things. But that "fact" isn't remotely true.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#149

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

angelsl wrote: post #134
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #5

Anecdote time... Tokyo train stations kinda suck. Coming from a few weeks in Malaysia and Singapore, it was interesting to see just how little and how poorly translated English is there. (They speak Japanese and not English, but lets be honest about it being the lingua franca) It was VERY DIFFICULT to figure out how their train colors worked, how Orange gets to Blue (it's a connect, but a couple blocks away). That Gi…

You can't really compare to Singapore. English is our primary language.

It had nothing to do with the language, the subway system was laid out logically in SG. Not like NYC or Tokyo. I appreciated the English language though, made the trip very easy. I don’t like the surveillance aspects (WAY too many cameras) but it’s a really beautiful place.

Re: The Psychology of Japanese Train Stations

#150

Post by lainga »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #111
kumarvvr wrote: post #93

Recently went to Japan. For a 'order' freak like me, it was heaven on earth. Not only in train stations, each and every aspect of their lives revolves around understanding human behavior and coming up with solutions to make activities as less confusing as possible. Their commitment to discipline is astounding. If everyone on earth were like the Japanese, our pace of technological, social and other forms of developmen…

What I actually liked most is the following: Eating fermented fish out of a bento box, while gliding through Japan with 300km/h is completely acceptable, yacking away on your cell phone is not. It makes for a very pleasent (and delicious) atmosphere while using public transport.

Actually, you can talk on your phone in the bullet trains only, but you have to go to the compartments between carriages.
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