101–110 of 110 posts
[I live in SF bay area and work in VC funded startups]
I mean life is not just 37 signals? At some point in time, he has to come out and do another startup. Is he setting himself a trap of doing a very narrow set of startups?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Wufoo stays private indefinitely, doesn't this clash with YC's business model? This probably stems from my naivete, but how do investors make money if a company has no intention of going public or being acquired?
37 Signals will probably eventually be acquired. Bezos bet on that by investing in them, and he is pretty smart.
37signals is not for sale now and probably never will be. We like what we're doing too much and are more than comfortable with just the simple financial success of a profitable business making dividends.
Again, doesn't mean that our way is the only way. I'm just trying to do mine to encourage others to see it as a viable alternative to the funding -> sell out route.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've just been busy with other stuff today and I haven't read it. But the answer to your question is yes: Wufoo, for example, is very much following the 37 Signals model.
If Wufoo stays private indefinitely, doesn't this clash with YC's business model? This probably stems from my naivete, but how do investors make money if a company has no intention of going public or being acquired?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is he angry and jealous of? I'm pretty sure he can afford to move there if he wants to.
I'm just guessing, but I'd say he's intimidated. Usually people who are frequently accused of arrogance are overcompensating. He doesn't like the Bay Area because so much happens here, and he's not a part of it. Afford? DHH is not rich.
And this doesn't really have anything to do with cost. 37signals is a multi-million dollar company and we (including the founders) could certainly afford to move to San Francisco.
After reading this rant and listening to his talk in startup school, is DHH drinking too much of his own kool-aid? [I live in SF bay area and work in VC funded startups] I mean life is not just 37 signals? At some point in time, he has to come out and do another startup. Is he setting himself a trap of doing a very narrow set of startups?
I think this mentality is a big part of what's wrong with the startup culture in the Bay area. This notion that it's inevitable that you have to work for a long string of companies, better not get too attached to any one of them.
Jason and I intend to make 37signals a company that'll last for 20 years. Maybe we won't succeed, lots of businesses fail, but that's at least our goal.
It's a sad state of affair where such a simple goal is looked upon with suspicion and disbelief.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Wufoo stays private indefinitely, doesn't this clash with YC's business model? This probably stems from my naivete, but how do investors make money if a company has no intention of going public or being acquired?
Investors can make money the same way founders can: Dividends. But yeah, that's a slow, boring way of earning a return in the eyes of some. It's not nearly as spectacular as a 10-100x return from a sale.
This is why medieval venture investors were willing to back sea voyages but not factories. In a sea voyage everyone got liquid at the end of each trip, and it was very clear what was on each ship.
I'm not suggesting of course that 37 Signals would take advantage of investors. I'm just explaining why, structurally, venture investors are not interested in dividends.
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Bare with me as I really dislike suburbia:-) Suburbs (of which I would exclude most college towns I am aware of -- that's not too many) are hell holes. They are not good for raising children unless you think spending an hour or two per day of quality time while feverishly preparing/ordering dinner and/or getting them ready for bed is quality time. Most suburbanites waste upwards of 3 hours per day commuting to and fr…
I used to agree with a lot of what you say. Then I had kids ;-) Actually, I still don't disagree entirely, but you did leave out one very important consideration: schools. In many American urban centers the schools are poor, and housing in urban school districts that are good is prohibitively expensive. So you start looking at suburbs, and the commute is a trade-off you make for the better schools. Oh, and I wish we…
So, the choice becomes move to the suburbs, home school, or pay up for private schooling of some kind.
Pittsburgh has become a "college town" in some ways. There are several good to very good universities here, and the Oakland neighborhood with Pitt and Carnegie Mellon, has become the economic center of the city in my opinion.
San Francisco is an interesting place. I live in SF, and I know a lot of programmers (and other tech workers) who live in SF, but I doubt that more than a third of them actually work in SF proper. Most of us engage in long and soul destroying drives to sterile office buildings in the midst of pedestrian-unfriendly parking lots on the peninsula and in the south bay. And we pay a lot for the privilege. I think that oth…
I can't believe you put Portland and Austin in the same sentence. Nothing wrong with Portland, but Austin is simply in another league: I don't believe there is another place in US with such combination of technology, nightlife and dating scenes. I do feel sorry for all guys in their 20s living in Bay Area.
Most of the programmers I know are now in their 30s with small children. We're trying to figure out how to pay a mortgate and preschool costs that easily exceed $1000/month.
Salaries are high here, and two income families can swing it. But I have realized that high costs are toxic to freedom. Yeah, if you score huge with a startup you'll have enough money be free of the daily grind, but that isn't really in the cards for most of us, even if we take a real crack at it.
I know people who have cashed out of the real estate market in SF and moved to Austin, and they absolutely love it. I think I'd enjoy it there, too. I think that it's probably easier to gain financial independence and start living on your own terms in other cities. And these don't have to be crappy lame places - these are really entertaining places to live. In some ways, I think the cost structure of SF makes it a less entertaining place to be, because people have to make more decisions based on paying the mortgage than doing something creative.
But my wife and I have a huge extended family in SF (parents, grandparents, cousins, nieces, nephews, etc...). I've actually tried to leave, but just I can't do it. And to me, cost is the only problem - if you have the dough, then for a certain type of person, SF may be the most pleasant place to live in the US.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Investors can make money the same way founders can: Dividends. But yeah, that's a slow, boring way of earning a return in the eyes of some. It's not nearly as spectacular as a 10-100x return from a sale.
The reason venture investors want a return of capital rather than dividends is not so much that it's faster, but that it's harder to spoof. Investors will accept dividends from a large, public company, because they're so highly regulated. But in a small private company it would be too easy for the guys running it to divert (what would have been) profits to their own uses. This is why medieval venture investors were w…
For people who are just interested in building a business, not searching for an exit, the traditional VC is just not a relevant option. 37signals is amongst those people.
I'm in Buenos Aires. The cost of living here it's 1/6 compared to San Francisco. And we have a lot of talent, cheap bandwidth and resources (apple Computers, big linux community, etc). Also, real state its growing fast. If you are planing to visit BA, msg me! :)
I've been to Argentina and I'm deeply in love with Buenos Aires – but heard that it's getting rather expensive living there fulltime. How is the job situation and such, for foreigners?
http://osdir.com/ml/culture.people.kragen.journal/2007-09/ms...