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DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

37signals.com

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Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#91

Post by ardit33 »

tptacek wrote: post #27
gibsonf1 wrote: post #6

DHH talked about lifestyle at Startup camp, and lifestyle is the key reason to want to be in San Francisco. It is simply a great City to live in with the added benefit that almost any escape to the natural world, like skiiing, sailing, etc etc, is immediately available. The downside is some added cost, but the costs here are comparable to Southbay locations and other major Cities. So if you want to build a sustainabl…

Give me a break. I lived in San Francisco for a bunch of years, starting after my first company got bought out --- I've experienced the city both totally flush with cash and living paycheck to paycheck. Allow me to retort: * Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the c…

I did upvote your post mainly b/c I don't want more people to move in here. hehe.... My major gripe with SF is actually the dating scene, it sucks ass (unless you are a gay guy, which probably will be great). Ratio of guys to girls in most work places is 3/1. It is expensive to live, so girls in early 20s choose to live somewhere else.

There is also very expensive housing (second after manhatan), and potential of earthquakes, but compare to Boston and most of the South is much much better.

And I agree, transportation is kinda sucky. I find myself using a car, even within the city.

BTW, not everybody works in Southbay or peninsula. I actually do work in emeryville (east bay), and the commute is about 25-35 mins, depending on traffic.

But, also many young startups are choosing SF and not peninsula to start up. The problem to find cheaper place will come only when the startup grows a lot, and you really need a lot of space.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#92

Post by dejb »

quellhorst wrote: post #11

Are you sure you want to listen to someone who has never lived in San Francisco? How can you measure the benefits of being around people and businesses that are similar? Its possible to trade stocks anywhere, but why do companies setup in New York or London? If you don't want to take someone else's money to build your business, then don't. If you lived in Las Vegas would you automatically become a gambler?

> Are you sure you want to listen to someone who has never lived in San Francisco?

Perhaps. But on the other hand - what value is the opinion of someone who has only ever worked/started-up in SF?

To have a basis for comparison you'd need to have experience both in and outside of the Bay area. Probably multiple places outside of the Bay would be needed for a reasonable basis for generalising.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#93

Post by ardit33 »

tptacek wrote: post #47
menloparkbum wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the country. - Public transportation is bad, unless you've ever been to houston, phoenix, dallas, detroit, los angeles, or anywhere else in the US outside of NYC, Boston, Portland, Chicago, or D.C. As bad as it is, SF's public t…

I modded you up, but: * Compared to Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, or Boston, San Francisco is filthy, both in a "civic pride and basic hygiene" sense, and in a "methadone clinics spewing out mentally ill homeless people contributing to a desperate humanitarian crisis" sense. * What areas are walkably friendly got that way by gentrifying and bleaching out the culture and neighborhoods from the city. Live in San…

As for the music scene, it depends what you like. If you like House/Electronica SF is great.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#94

Post by andreyf »

pg wrote: post #89
andreyf wrote: post #88

This seems a direct contradiction to everything PG advocates ... no funding (not even seed funding). No VC's. No IPO. No buyout. Just doing what you love, without a boss, and getting paid well for it. Claiming a higher probability of happiness than the "funding" route. And yet, PG is eerily silent... does YC cater to people following the 37sig model? If one decides to stay a private company, how do investors ever mak…

I've just been busy with other stuff today and I haven't read it. But the answer to your question is yes: Wufoo, for example, is very much following the 37 Signals model.

If Wufoo stays private indefinitely, doesn't this clash with YC's business model?

This probably stems from my naivete, but how do investors make money if a company has no intention of going public or being acquired?

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#95

Post by pg »

andreyf wrote: post #94
pg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just been busy with other stuff today and I haven't read it. But the answer to your question is yes: Wufoo, for example, is very much following the 37 Signals model.

If Wufoo stays private indefinitely, doesn't this clash with YC's business model? This probably stems from my naivete, but how do investors make money if a company has no intention of going public or being acquired?

37 Signals will probably eventually be acquired. Bezos bet on that by investing in them, and he is pretty smart.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#96

Post by ardit33 »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #79
cbryan wrote: post #21

I'm surprised that noone's really talking about money here. The Bay Area has one of the highest costs of living of any city in the country. That means its going to take that much more of your time to work, to make money, and to live. If you're spending your time working to live, that means you're not using that time to work on your projects. Right now I'm taking a culture hit. Living in Worcester, MA certainly doesn'…

Not to mention that California is probably the most fiscally screwed up and one of the most tax heavy states in the country.

You forget to mention that I make about twice as much here in SF as I did in Boston. And my lifestyle and quality of life improved dramatically...

I have an uncle in Worcester, and I visit it once and a while, and I think it is really boring.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#97

Post by menloparkbum »

ardit33 wrote: post #91
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. I lived in San Francisco for a bunch of years, starting after my first company got bought out --- I've experienced the city both totally flush with cash and living paycheck to paycheck. Allow me to retort: * Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the c…

I did upvote your post mainly b/c I don't want more people to move in here. hehe.... My major gripe with SF is actually the dating scene, it sucks ass (unless you are a gay guy, which probably will be great). Ratio of guys to girls in most work places is 3/1. It is expensive to live, so girls in early 20s choose to live somewhere else. There is also very expensive housing (second after manhatan), and potential of ear…

The heterosexual dating scene in SF is indeed horrible. The only bittersweet encouragement I can offer young men in the Bay Area is this: If you stay here long enough, you will eventually get lots of dates with attractive young women... when you are 7-12 years older than they are. Just make sure you take it easy on the free soda and pizza. My apologies to all the 23 year old dudes, but 23 year old nerds are just nerds. 30 year old nerds are endearing, or a way to get back at her parents, or an easy mark for free drinks, or, most likely, simply a boyfriend who can afford to not have roommates.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#98

Post by alex_c »

9oliYQjP wrote: post #16
gibsonf1 wrote: post #6

DHH talked about lifestyle at Startup camp, and lifestyle is the key reason to want to be in San Francisco. It is simply a great City to live in with the added benefit that almost any escape to the natural world, like skiiing, sailing, etc etc, is immediately available. The downside is some added cost, but the costs here are comparable to Southbay locations and other major Cities. So if you want to build a sustainabl…

San Francisco is a great city. But there are other great cities too. I for one, love where I live in Toronto. There is a general perception that Toronto is just another American city except it happens to be in Canada. That is flat out inaccurate and my colleague one office over who just emigrated from California and another American colleague who setup shop here after getting his Ph.D. from Harvard will attest to tha…

I love Toronto (especially downtown Toronto), I hate the weather. Each winter finds me more and more grumpy, and less and less productive. Lack of access to a sea or ocean is also a big minus for me.

The thing I loved about my visits to SF is that it reminded me of (downtown) Toronto more strongly than any other city I've visited. Great food, friendly people, very multicultural, a lot more easygoing than someplace like New York. Yes, SF is expensive as hell, but downtown Toronto's not significantly cheaper.

If Toronto didn't have the winters it does, I probably wouldn't consider moving. As it is, if SF is a more expensive version of Toronto but without winter and with a larger tech community, then that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#99

Post by philippp »

tptacek wrote: post #32
sutro wrote: post #18

I'm glad you enjoy those wonderful Chicago winters, DHH.

I'm glad you enjoy paying $2000 a month for a 600sqft San Francisco studio, sutro.

Are you just trolling now? For the record, my roommate and I are paying $1,800 for a 1400 sq foot two bedroom. And that's a lot, when I compare with my friends who have lived here for more than a year.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#100

Post by pchristensen »

sabat wrote: post #50
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Why don't you ask FeedBurner?

I think that -- by pointing out that there has been only one successful startup in Chicago (37Signals does not count; it's not really a startup, just a small business) -- that you just underscored the argument for the Bay Area.

Please, can we all stop saying "just a small business"? There's no "just". It's not a bad thing.
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