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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#521

Post by Digital-Citizen »

yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

Indeed, "if you apply General Curtis Le May to a situation and you get havoc, well, that s what you called General LeMay in for" (to use an Eben Moglen quote out of the context in which he said it); if you host a device in your home running proprietary software you ought not be surprised that it is spying on you and the proprietors determine what to do with that data, not you.

We must not forget another critical component of all this: these always-on listening devices run on proprietary (nonfree, user-subjugating) software. Therefore the user has no permission to: inspect what it does, modify it to do only what the user wants (or, since most computer users aren't programmers, get someone technical they trust to perform such modifications for them), run the modified software in their device, and distribute copies of the improved software to help their community.

If these devices ran on free software (software that respected the user's freedom to run, inspect, modify, and share) the more technical among us could help them. But as it is even the most technically-minded willing person cannot legally do this work to help them.

As Eben Moglen reminded us after the Snowden revelations came out: It's critical that we don't fall into the trap of saying something akin to 'those kids take too many darn pictures' like concluding that we just can't have these devices or their services at all. We can have all of their alleged conveniences but only if we have free software implementations.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#522

Post by edwhitesell »

mehrdadn wrote: post #517
edwhitesell wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Androids (like mine) won't lock for a few seconds after turning off the screen. It's a nice feature when you press to turn off the screen, and quickly realize you need to do something else. Just turn on the screen and it's still unlocked. Entering the pattern after it's locked is pretty much impossible though.

But then that means if you put it in your pocket it might suddenly do something because it's not locked yet.

It might, but it hasn't in the 18 months I've been using it. I don't know what the timer is supposed to be, but it seems like something less than 2 seconds. I'm pretty sure I couldn't get my phone in my pocket and press the power button that quickly if I wanted to.

Also, the case adds to the pressure needed to depress the button anyway.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#523

Post by Animats »

kinsomo wrote: post #427
Animats wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0, 1, a few, many. Just enough to tell you how much to crank up the HVAC.

> 0, 1, a few, many. Just enough to tell you how much to crank up the HVAC. I don't think the number of people in a room will give you meaningful information to tell you "how much to crank up the HVAC." Also, the HVAC systems in most homes aren't capable of even cranking up the HVAC in a particular room.

True. The market for this is schools, offices, and hotels, where the people load changes drastically and the HVAC has to react to that.

This is what the "Internet of Things" should be doing, but seldom does.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#524

Post by hug »

eric_h wrote: post #467
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the main problem with motion activated office lights tbf, especially when you're doing software development for example - not enough motion to keep them on.

My problem with the motion activated office lights (at least the ones at the wework my company is located) is that you can't turn them off. The button appears to turn the lights off and disable the motion sensor for some (short) period of time, then movement turns the lights back on again. Very annoying.

My office has a piece of paper taped over the motion sensor on the roof for that reason.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#525

Post by harryh »

Digital-Citizen wrote: post #521
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

Indeed, "if you apply General Curtis Le May to a situation and you get havoc, well, that s what you called General LeMay in for" (to use an Eben Moglen quote out of the context in which he said it); if you host a device in your home running proprietary software you ought not be surprised that it is spying on you and the proprietors determine what to do with that data, not you. We must not forget another critical comp…

The idea that if these devices ran free software they would be more humane than the proprietary software they currently run is ridiculous.

What are you giving your mom? A Mac running OSX or a PC running Linux?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#526

Post by gol706 »

evancordell wrote: post #446
gol706 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another pain point with making is that it's really hard to get it integrated with stuff you have bought. I built my own garage door automation with a Particle Photon board. It works great and can do things like text me if I leave the house with the garage door open using the IFTT support from my WiFi router. The problem is that it's really hard to get it integrated with any other control system that the rest of my ho…

I would check out https://www.home-assistant.io/ for integrating multiple systems together. I use it on a RasPi to integrate a few disparate systems (Amazon, Nest, RadioRa2) and it works very well. There are modules for most existing systems and it's easy to write your own in python.

I probably should try it. I've been writing my own partly as an excuse to learn React. I've already got a Pi with a touchscreen and a 3d printed enclosure setup to run whatever solution I actually end up using.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#527

Post by komali2 »

duxup wrote: post #327
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

I remember the first voice command stuff on google. Buddy of mine was trying it out and I couldn't help myself but shout: "NEW TEXT MESSAGE TO JENNY! FUCK YOU! SEND!" Fortunately the phone was too slow to take it all (even if it had Jenny would have found it amusing, she was a cube or two away). But yeah first thing I thought of was that if it's listening how easy is it for it to mistake intent or someone else or etc…

Hahah so my favorite thing to do when people use Siri, Google voice, Alexa etc is shout

"WHERE TO BUY COCAINE, SAN FRANCISCO"

or

"HOW TO JOIN ISIS"

or

"PLUTONIUM FOR SALE NEAR ME"

The commands are usually recognized but turn up nonsensical results.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#528

Post by Mandatum »

chias wrote: post #516
robotmlg wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As it is I hate how I can't talk ABOUT "ok google" around my phone... because it always goes off. On several tech podcasts I listen to ( http://atp.fm , https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/ ) they use fillers like "Yo, dingus!" to talk about alexa/hey siri/ok google

Mine will sometimes / often go off when I say "ok, cool". It's simultaneously amusing and annoying.

"Cocaine poodle"

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#529

Post by komali2 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #425
duxup wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first voice command stuff on google. Buddy of mine was trying it out and I couldn't help myself but shout: "NEW TEXT MESSAGE TO JENNY! FUCK YOU! SEND!" Fortunately the phone was too slow to take it all (even if it had Jenny would have found it amusing, she was a cube or two away). But yeah first thing I thought of was that if it's listening how easy is it for it to mistake intent or someone else or etc…

Ok Google has been a massive disappointment every time I've tried to use it. I tried "next song" while in Google Maps and it marked Exxon along the route. Then it played a song in a streaming app by "Max," wasting my data and making me close the streaming app I didn't even know I had and restart the music I wanted. "Next" turned out to work a bit better but it took multiple tries.

I remember switching to Android way back whenever the iPhone 3gs was "second-best" iPhone (was the 4 the next?), from the 3gs.

The 3gs had perfectly functional "play my xyz playlist", "next song," "play songs by artist" functionality, and to this day I don't understand why it took so long for Google to implement it, and why the implementation is so shitty.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#530

Post by chalkandpaste »

komali2 wrote: post #529
jimmaswell wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok Google has been a massive disappointment every time I've tried to use it. I tried "next song" while in Google Maps and it marked Exxon along the route. Then it played a song in a streaming app by "Max," wasting my data and making me close the streaming app I didn't even know I had and restart the music I wanted. "Next" turned out to work a bit better but it took multiple tries.

I remember switching to Android way back whenever the iPhone 3gs was "second-best" iPhone (was the 4 the next?), from the 3gs. The 3gs had perfectly functional "play my xyz playlist", "next song," "play songs by artist" functionality, and to this day I don't understand why it took so long for Google to implement it, and why the implementation is so shitty.

The issue is google doesn't care about they're users. As long as it's good enough to keep the data-gravy-train going.
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