Same thing with my Android phone. When I am in an area without internet access, but phone-calling signal (at least) the dumb ass phone defaults to using an internal low-quality OK-Google speech recognition. So instead of looking up hours to a nearby restaurant I look at my phone and it is suddenly calling someone in my contact list (that I haven't really talked to in years)... and of course since the speech recognition blasted the CPU's horsepower, nothing on the screen is responsive and my thumbs are constantly slamming the screen with no feedback - the calls goes through for about a second or ringing before my phone decide to hang up fully.
Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
411–420 of 734 posts
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
The chance that a random implementer has a security vulnerability is much higher than that Jeff Bezos is listening to me watch TV. A private system is more vulnerable to target attack and an Amazon system is more vulnerable to mass surveillance.
Why not just program it in Rust if you want to guarantee that the system doesn't have any security vulnerabilities?
A secure language does not protect you from insecure design. I could very easily build a system in Rust with gaping security holes, purposefully or accidentally.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#413I turned on recording indication sounds on my Google home in accessibility options.
Now I hear it beep and randomly start listening when my wife and I talk. Sometimes it does it randomly without me making a sound.
I ask it what's up and it ignores me and goes to sleep.
Smart speakers are so dumb I'm hardly surprised by this.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
There may be a market for something between a standard one-bit low-rez motion sensor and a full color TV camera. Maybe a 16x16 pixel IR sensor with a fisheye lens and a puny CPU that reports an approximate number of people in the area, for HVAC and lighting control, and security.
Reporting an approximate number of people is not a trivial task, even with a real camera. Depending on what exactly you mean with "approximate", of course.
0, 1, a few, many. Just enough to tell you how much to crank up the HVAC.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, if I understand you correctly: - You are pretty certain that your phone is listening at all times, even though it's set not to. - You see no difference between a product that's advertised manly as a listening device and one that also has such a feature, that can theoretically be turned off, and is very useful otherwise.
I don’t think my phone is listening, other than the wake word. Same deal with my smart speakers. I think either one could , if hacked or just updated by the manufacturer with nefarious intent. I see no difference, privacy-wise, between the two. I don’t care how they’re advertised, I care what they’re capable of.
That wake word can be disabled in your phone and it's perfectly functional without it. This way, it only listens when you want it to (theoretically).
I'm sure you can appreciate the difference: press a button to talk to Siri vs Siri is always listening.
The latter seems crazy to me, on a phone, cylinder, laptop or whatever device it's implemented.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did not say >"security is always the most important thing". I did not suggest that anyone should develop such that >" the thing you are creating has no features". I certainly never suggested that no one get out of bed because they might slip in the bath. These are strawman arguments. You do not need to lecture me about risk. I've had a career in international downhill ski racing, have won auto racing championships,…
Ok, I never said that the 'analysis' should be purely based on dollar value. I never even said it should be a mathematical model. You accuse me of a strawman and then turn around and do the same to me. I was simply pointing out that we can never get to zero risk, and since we can't, we have to weigh risks based on consequences and probability. > 1) fully examine the system for potential critical failure points/modes…
So your model isn't even mathematical, it's what, just a SWAG of the combined hazards and odds? That works for linear, small risks.
It absolutely does NOT work for serious risks, e.g., of death, serious injury, massive privacy violation, and other potential life-changing events.
The concept you are clearly avoiding or missing non-linear risk.
You (and amzn_engineer1) are advocating for simply subsuming risk assessment into the ordinary development cycle, and calling it "taking it seriously".
That is fooling yourself.
Taking it seriously is actually making full and serious effort OUT OF THE NORMAL DEVELOPMENT CYCLE for no other purpose than to SEEK and identify potential critical risks.
It is then engineering a variety of in-depth solutions to prevent those critical failure points from ever seeing the light of day. And implementing them. and testing them. And monitoring them.
>> I don't think it is an a priori fact that accidentally sending a recording of a conversation to a contact is a 'critical risk'.
This is an exact example of this sort of failure: 'it's not a priori bad'..., minimize it and streamline it into dev.
I really want to know in what world any sane person would say that it's OK to randomly divulging an intimate conversation to a contact or random recipient -- seriously, who would say that?
I mean sure, most conversations are benign, but some could be utterly life-changing if revealed. and that's OK with you?
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most phone now have some kind of lock screen, which makes it pretty difficult to get to the butt dialing stage. Will speech command recognition get to that stage? The main reason I won't have any of those products in my house is because of that. I'd much rather have a confirmation of some kind before the system takes action. "...random talking..." Assistant "I am recording" Me: "Stop recording"
You'd be amazed at my dad's ability to butt dial people with an iPhone. It's possible. Like multiple times per week possible.
I always press the lock button before I put the phone back in my pocket, but I've seen people put the phone back in their pocket or purse unlocked. If you have the phone app already running, butt dialing is very likely to occur.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember the first voice command stuff on google. Buddy of mine was trying it out and I couldn't help myself but shout: "NEW TEXT MESSAGE TO JENNY! FUCK YOU! SEND!" Fortunately the phone was too slow to take it all (even if it had Jenny would have found it amusing, she was a cube or two away). But yeah first thing I thought of was that if it's listening how easy is it for it to mistake intent or someone else or etc…
> As it is I hate how I can't talk ABOUT "ok google" around my phone... because it always goes off. On several tech podcasts I listen to ( http://atp.fm , https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/ ) they use fillers like "Yo, dingus!" to talk about alexa/hey siri/ok google
"My lady in the tube did this weird thing today" is something I've heard
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google quickly fixed the issue caused by the person putting it in the bathroom and causing the button to stick. The person that it happened to got a pre-release version. Google even went to the persons house on a Friday evening to resolve. The person found the problem on the same day. None of the units sold to the general public had the issue. Realize Google literally dropped everything to take care of the issue. Now…
Google took the top spot because they're giving them away for free. Sales numbers are easy to pad, see the New York Times Bestseller lists woes in that regard.
Wish they were giving away for free. Really wish they would just discount the Max a little. Have one but want a second.
Echo was out 2 years longer and Google already passed as they are just a lot smarter and easier to use. It is that Google AI is just superior in every layer of the stack.
Can't wait for Duplex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd1mEm2Fy08
Once Google leads in an area they do not give it up. Something I just love about Google is they never rest and will just keep innovating.
The new voices are incredible. You can not tell the difference between the machine and a human any longer.
We started with the Echo but then purchased a Google Home and more Google Homes. Looks like made the right decision on which to standardize on.
Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact
#420I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…
I had exactly same idea just about the lights but am too lazy to even try to implement it. Plus sensors require power and that requires cables and that's way too much bother.
Low tech alternative solution from my friends? Get LEDs. Never turn off the lights. This way the room you are going to will always be lit.