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Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

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Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#141

Post by freeone3000 »

microtonal wrote: post #126
tobltobs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating new apps has just become more effort, while monetization options have become more difficult.

So? Profit maximization of the developer is not the only thing that matters, users deserve to be protected as well. Applications have become terrible in this respect. I use Little Snitch and see many paid applications report to Google Analytics. I don’t want the developer to know how often and how I use the application, let alone Google. Technical users know how to use an application firewall, uBlock or uMatrix. But…

Google Analytics isn't usually used as a revenue stream, but instead for analytics and telemetry.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#142

Post by [deleted] »

mstolpm wrote: post #31

Asked a lawyer: If Instapaper doesn't delete the data from its EU users tomorrow, all the rules of the GDPR might still fall on their head. Most likely, they are then storing EU user data without given consent and have to follow all the requests about data storage, use, deletion and so on. Denying service without data deletion is not an option.

[deleted]

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#143

Post by jimnotgym »

Kiro wrote: post #127
jacquesm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And how much revenue does the Instapaper service generate for Pinterest? Who cares? That's not a factor in whether or not you should comply with the law. > Lower profile groups within big companies are probably most likely to shut off their services to European users because they have the cautious legal departments of the large company without the important profit center designation which would make compliance a pr…

> it is the company that is violating the law, not the lower profile group. I work in a company that was acquired and we're still our own legal entity. Would our owner be affected if we violate GDPR?

That would depend on what kind of ownership structure you have. Do they exercise management control, have seats on the board etc?

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#144

Post by zerostar07 »

sveme wrote: post #136
joering2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel bad. The law is ridiculous and most startups cannot even afford salary for another programmer not to mention GDPR-law compliance officer. Hopefully if enough services get interrupted, bureaucrats at EU will rethink the law.

So which part of the law is ridiculous? Disclaimer: I believe the principles that are applied within the law, data autonomy, data ownership, usage-binding of data etc., are sound. And just because people have aggregated any data on people that they could get to better manipulate them into buying crap for so long that it‘s hard to change track today, doesn‘t mean it‘s wrong for lawmakers to enforce parting ways with t…

- IPs are personal private infromation

- You need opt-in consent for all (ad) cookies, including non-tracking ones. Basically,advertising is optional in EU sites as of today.

- I could argue the right to download your data is superfluous, mostly because it creates potential holes for data leaks/phishing etc.

The law is confusing "privacy" with "invisibility".

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#145

Post by merinowool »

pembrook wrote: post #101
danpalmer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you’re making a bigger deal out of this than necessary, unless you’re doing some shady stuff with our data. From what I can tell from various legal advice that I’ve read, as long as you’re working on implementing the changes, and have been following security best practices, nothing really changes on May 25th, and you’ll be able to take your time to become fully compliant, as long as you can demonstrate th…

Instapaper is owned by Pinterest. Pinterest is a large high profile company with millions of European users and would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name. I highly doubt this decision was made lightly and was probably informed by actual legal professionals with knowledge of the regulators in question and not the 3rd party opinion of some guy on the intern…

> would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name.

Shouldn't law apply equally to everyone? One could have thought that setting an example "to show them!" wouldn't have occurred in a civilised country.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#146

Post by greedo »

dmix wrote: post #117
Hamuko wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. The safest option was actually to comply with the GDPR during the two years it has been in force now. I refuse to believe that the changes required were impossible to perform in two years. I'd love to know when exactly did Instapaper start looking into the GDPR.

The founder has said that he underestimated the amount of work it was going to take. Anyone who has ever worked on software knows how this stuff happens. You don't truly know how long something is going to take until you dig into the hairy details of implementation. Plus there are still tons of unknown variables at play with GDPR... even among companies who did spend sufficient time beforehand, as I quoted from the a…

Marco Arment is the founder of Instapaper. He sold it after building it into one of the first successful iOS applications/services.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#147

Post by dragonwriter »

freeone3000 wrote: post #138
pfg wrote: post #61

> But because the fines are so steep — violating GDPR will cost a company 4 percent of its global turnover or $20 million, whichever is larger — no one really wants to be caught non-compliant. Can everyone just stop repeating this, pretty please? That is the maximum penalty. You'd have to try really, really hard to get that kind of penalty. For minor transgressions, you're likely to get away with a reprimand.

Why would a government impose anything other than the maximum?

> Why would a government impose anything other than the maximum?

Because it's bound to apply a bunch of other rules in setting penalties by the same regulation that set the maximum cited. Saying that every offense will get the maximum is saying that the government will ignore the regulation, in which case you can just as justifiably say that any behavior, even if it isn't a violation of the rules, will get a fine of €1.337 quintillion, or 1,000% of global combined GDP, whichever is greater.

Heck, even ignoring the casd-by-case factors that must be considered, the 4% or €20 million maximum is much greater than the maximum for many violations, there are only certain GDPR violations that have that maximum.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#148

Post by merinowool »

Hamuko wrote: post #113
dmix wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. Especially low margin per user businesses like Instapaper. From The Verge: > because it’s not entirely clear right now what information residents will request, what format that information needs to be in, how to locate it and package it, and whether new infrastructure needs to be created to manage this request pipelin…

>It still seems like the safest option given the massive risk this legislation is exposing companies. The safest option was actually to comply with the GDPR during the two years it has been in force now. I refuse to believe that the changes required were impossible to perform in two years. I'd love to know when exactly did Instapaper start looking into the GDPR.

If there is so much ambiguity and interpretations what kind of manager would risk getting into doing such project if a risk of failure is equal to not doing it at all?

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#149

Post by bearcobra »

merinowool wrote: post #145
pembrook wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instapaper is owned by Pinterest. Pinterest is a large high profile company with millions of European users and would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name. I highly doubt this decision was made lightly and was probably informed by actual legal professionals with knowledge of the regulators in question and not the 3rd party opinion of some guy on the intern…

> would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name. Shouldn't law apply equally to everyone? One could have thought that setting an example "to show them!" wouldn't have occurred in a civilised country.

In a world of limited resources, it makes sense that regulators would pursue enforcement against entities that impact a large number of people.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#150

Post by merinowool »

zerostar07 wrote: post #144
sveme wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which part of the law is ridiculous? Disclaimer: I believe the principles that are applied within the law, data autonomy, data ownership, usage-binding of data etc., are sound. And just because people have aggregated any data on people that they could get to better manipulate them into buying crap for so long that it‘s hard to change track today, doesn‘t mean it‘s wrong for lawmakers to enforce parting ways with t…

- IPs are personal private infromation - You need opt-in consent for all (ad) cookies, including non-tracking ones. Basically,advertising is optional in EU sites as of today. - I could argue the right to download your data is superfluous, mostly because it creates potential holes for data leaks/phishing etc. The law is confusing "privacy" with "invisibility".

Then you'll have all sorts of disputes for example someone could claim their cat stepped on a touchscreen and consented without the user knowledge or someone consented whilst being completely drunk - such consent is not valid. That means potentially companies are keeping the data illegally thinking they comply.
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