Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#161

Post by okfine » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

amzn_engineer1 wrote: post #66

What actually happened: Alexa misinterpreted some voice commands and activated a "call" skill. The people involved and local news got very excited and escalated this into a conspiracy story. Amazon takes customer privacy EXTREMELY seriously. There's no way a team would get the "ok" to build a skill that randomly records private conversations then sends them to a random contact. It also doesn't make any logical sense…

Your comment sounds belittling to me. The OP isn't a "conspiracy story", it simply says what happened. Yes, it tells the story from the couple's point of view. Shouldn't it? Sure, they "got excited". Who wouldn't?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#162

Post by jclardy » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

kinsomo wrote: post #59

DiabloD3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to watchword detection, the microphone amp would always be on.

> Due to watchword detection, the microphone amp would always be on. I don't think that would be a bad thing; especially if there's a switch to disable the mic. When you turn it off, you'll get reliable feedback to know it's actually off. I think it's important that these kinds of devices have simple feedback and control mechanisms that can be independently verified and reasoned about. Software is too opaque and too…

I don't disagree, but the light ring is also important to know that it actually heard your command. Having it on all the time would make the UX much worse. Unless it was a separate light.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#163

Post by millstone » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

twinkletwinkle wrote: post #133

jadedhacker wrote: post #125

I feel creeped out by these home listening devices and I don't own one, but don't our phones already have this capability? You can turn "Ok Google" on on an android phone. I sometimes record audio, and the mic is incredibly good. Is there a substantial difference between our phones and these devices? EDIT: Just realized the substantial difference is that Google and Amazon own all of these things. They don't control a…

Not sure about Android phones with "Ok Google" but on iOS, all of Siri's voice processing is on the device. As opposed to Amazon Alexa which sends the data to the cloud for processing.

Siri does speech recognition on Apple’s servers, but commands are performed on the device. The server doesn’t know who you are.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#164

Post by blakes » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

I've made plans for essentially this, but using infrared sensors to track occupants rather than cameras.

There are many methods for occupancy tracking without cameras. IR sensors, antennas in the walls, NFC (bleh), proximity sensors.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#165

Post by econochoice » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

From what I gather, if you need fine-grained location information in a building, you can do this without cameras and just a handful of strategically placed wireless access points.

Less likely to be seen as creepy and such systems already exist.

If you just need 'is a person in this room' or 'how many people are in this room' levels of data, solutions to this problem have existed for decades. No need to over complicate a solved problem.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#166

Post by ythn » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

Such a system would be a huge GDPR nightmare. You'd need consent from every visitor to your house to collect data on them, and also you have to delete it if they ever request you to. Best not to even try.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#167

Post by fouric » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #149

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

Even if you build it, knowing guest may never feel completely comfortable visiting your house.

They should feel more comfortable than an equivalent system built by a company that is looking to profit off of your data - and additionally, you can give the guest stronger guarantees that when you say that the system is "off", it actually is.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#168

Post by millstone » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #47

rolha-capoeira wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they mean that the light should not be accessible to software, just wired so that "if camera is on, light is on"

Which means the light is always on. The device must be listening or the wake word won't work.

Maybe the light could be tied to network activity? The light is on if the WiFi chip is powered.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#169

Post by tambourine_man » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #132

tambourine_man wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pocket computer can be programed to listen, or not. The whole point of these cylinders is to be listening at all times.

Lots of phones can be set to listen all the time, and you have no way of knowing if it’s been programmed to listen even if you turn that off.

Lots of phone can be set to not listen all the time. iPhone for instance.

Yes, it’s ultimately trust in the device maker, the compiler, the chip manufacturer, etc, and those can and have been verified to some extent.

But that’s not the point. A phone can listen or not, where you have no doubt with the cylinder. It’s its raison d'etre.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#170

Post by fouric » Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

ythn wrote: post #166

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

Such a system would be a huge GDPR nightmare. You'd need consent from every visitor to your house to collect data on them, and also you have to delete it if they ever request you to. Best not to even try.

Does the GDPR even apply to private individuals like that?