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Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

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Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#161

Post by krrrh »

wastedhours wrote: post #156
nradov wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point? This doesn't gain anything over existing legal contracts.

> What's the point? >> I'm not a crypto-apologist > This doesn't gain anything over existing legal contracts. >> I think this interface might actually be clearer for some people who are financially uneducated, as it expresses their ownership percentage, debt obligations, and potential secured borrowing options in one go. Whilst a lot of it could be done without the crypto side of things if everything happens with the…

> Would appreciate a rebuttal to my points.

People already have a hard time dealing with contracts written in their own native tongues, why would they prefer having to read and validate source code? Even if a few standard blockchained contracts emerged for real estate deals that could be validated into human language, regular people are terrible at using and trusting software that they use irregularly. In some jurisdictions it is possible to buy and sell houses without involving lawyers or bankers, but most people use their services anyway because they are legally obligated to act in their client's interests, and they are experts at such things. Obviously you will also have to include the government-administered land title registry, an institution that have slowly evolved over centuries and works very well. There is no good reason to decentralize land titles, even if it were possible.

So even if bringing public-key encryption and software interpreters into a real estate deal were to introduce some efficiencies compared to dealing with word docs and paper copies that any country lawyer could amend and attest to without having to hire a Solidity developer and praying that it's one that can handle a weird contract addendum without introducing a bug, which is a big if, the costs and complexities would barely budge because there is a lot more that goes into a real estate transaction than validating contracts.

Crypto-apologists (I know you're not one) seem to include a lot of people who have never stressed out over a real estate deal, or worked on a helpdesk.

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#162

Post by manishsharan »

thevardanian wrote: post #157
manishsharan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What unifies them simply is the technical language used to describe their philosophy, and define their own ideas Nearly all religions use the same technical language to spread their ideas. Islam, Hinduism,Sikhism, Christianity -- all of them -- talk about God, meaning of life , yada yada yada. Does that make them closer and their philosophical differences trivial? You had begun your argument by saying that the ide…

Here how about this. What do you think of the term "dharma" being used in the context of the corporate form/guilds in India? It is a well documented fact that Srenis would have to declare their Dharma by which they, and their members, had to abide by, and was sanctioned by the Monarch. This was simply called Sreni-Dharma. Furthermore that's a false equivalence as they do not use the same vocabulary. I challenge you t…

>>It is a well documented fact that Srenis would have to declare their Dharma by which they, and their members, had to abide by, and was sanctioned by the Monarch. This was simply called Sreni-Dharma.

I am not sure as to how this is relevant. Shrenis were guilds and shrenidharma obviously refers to a code of conduct for members. This could have been relevant to use in this context except that it is clearly half assed attempt to use an ancient word. Dharma should have been used as suffix in this context; shrenidharma = guild + rules. Other exmaples of use are atithidharma, kuladharma etc... So not only are they appropriating "Dharma" to make themselves look cool, they are also using it incorrectly.

>>There's NOT a single unifying factor that united Indian religions...so again, please tell me where Hindus are the same

This is simply not true. Take tantra for example ( I am not sure about Himalayan Tantra ) Tantrik traditions and scriptures are derived from both Shaivites and and Vaishnavs, with neither schools laying exclusive claims on Tantrik tradtions. I am not alluding to Buddhist Mahayana 's tantrik traditions.

Arya Samaj grew as a reformation of the 19th century Hinduism. My grandfather was a Arya Samaji but not my grandmother who was a vaishnav. The one thing that western scholars of Hinduism often miss is the fluidity of devotion -- by that I mean Hindus are equally at ease in perfoming pujas of deities from diffent schools. In hindu households, you will find Rama, Shiva , Ganesha , Durga and Krishna and they would all be worshipped. The differences of interpretation of Geeta and Vedas are left to scholars to argue but to claim that they have nothing in common is just wild exaggeration.

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#163

Post by TTPrograms »

spookthesunset wrote: post #145
TTPrograms wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A privately owned centralized debt exchange company can go out of business.

And one of these can fork itself to leave you stranded if the mob (or top of the pyramid) switch to another more popular fork. You’ll be left holding a bag of worthless tokens. You’ve traded the entire legal infrastructure for mob rule. This project, like all crypto projects, is fundamentally flawed. The only difference is this one somehow managed to con a bunch of VC folk into funding it.

If a blockchain forks you have copies on both forks. What are you talking about?

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#164

Post by wastedhours »

krrrh wrote: post #161
wastedhours wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the point? >> I'm not a crypto-apologist > This doesn't gain anything over existing legal contracts. >> I think this interface might actually be clearer for some people who are financially uneducated, as it expresses their ownership percentage, debt obligations, and potential secured borrowing options in one go. Whilst a lot of it could be done without the crypto side of things if everything happens with the…

> Would appreciate a rebuttal to my points. People already have a hard time dealing with contracts written in their own native tongues, why would they prefer having to read and validate source code? Even if a few standard blockchained contracts emerged for real estate deals that could be validated into human language, regular people are terrible at using and trusting software that they use irregularly. In some jurisd…

All fair points - but there's no reason not to involve legal counsel in smart contracts either (if we're talking in hypotheticals about a bank being ok issuing a smart contract for a mortgage, then I think we have to make the assumptive leap Solidity developers are two-a-penny), and the benefit of the solution I proposed is that your everyday interaction with your state of the contract is more visible than it is with the current system.

My proposal is less about the legal setup, and more about the ongoing interaction with the contract, which might aid with financial education, especially around equity (see how many people are caught up in interest-only mortgages), and debt leverage.

Whether you use a ledger or not depends on how it could actually work, but there aren't many other solutions that give transparency among multiple disparate parties, without a reliance on a credit agency (which, as we all know, has caused some... issues...).

Not sure whether I'm keen on that vision of the future or not, but I can definitely see the day where physical assets are represented by some digital manifestation/token.

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#165

Post by CryptoPunk »

Kiro wrote: post #139
fapjacks wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% sure that if I went and "the code is the contract"ed whatever ends up being DAO2.0 out of 5% of all existing ETH, that Vitalik would come save it "just this once" one more time... I absolutely do not believe for one second that there wouldn't be another fork. And I say this as someone with a substantial interest in the currency.

Nope, won't happen again. Look at EIP-999. It's backed by Vitalik but is still dead.

EIP-999 isn't backed by Vitalik but it was backed by major figures in Ethereum, including at least one co-founder. And yes it's dead.

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#166

Post by thevardanian »

manishsharan wrote: post #162
thevardanian wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here how about this. What do you think of the term "dharma" being used in the context of the corporate form/guilds in India? It is a well documented fact that Srenis would have to declare their Dharma by which they, and their members, had to abide by, and was sanctioned by the Monarch. This was simply called Sreni-Dharma. Furthermore that's a false equivalence as they do not use the same vocabulary. I challenge you t…

>>It is a well documented fact that Srenis would have to declare their Dharma by which they, and their members, had to abide by, and was sanctioned by the Monarch. This was simply called Sreni-Dharma. I am not sure as to how this is relevant. Shrenis were guilds and shrenidharma obviously refers to a code of conduct for members. This could have been relevant to use in this context except that it is clearly half assed…

Sikhs worship Shakti and Gurunanak makes references, even praises, "Hindu" gods, ideas, and symbols. Does that make them Hindus as well?

Furthermore, you do agree that Dharma isn't just a religious term. Right?

But I do agree with you on appropriation. Indians need to own the term, and define what it is, so that Sanskritic/Indic terms used in the west are well defined. In that sense a sort of sanskritization* of English can take place, just as there's a latinization of Indian languages.

Re: Launch HN: Dharma (YC S17) an open protocol for borrowing/lending cryptoassets

#167

Post by manishsharan »

thevardanian wrote: post #166
manishsharan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It is a well documented fact that Srenis would have to declare their Dharma by which they, and their members, had to abide by, and was sanctioned by the Monarch. This was simply called Sreni-Dharma. I am not sure as to how this is relevant. Shrenis were guilds and shrenidharma obviously refers to a code of conduct for members. This could have been relevant to use in this context except that it is clearly half assed…

Sikhs worship Shakti and Gurunanak makes references, even praises, "Hindu" gods, ideas, and symbols. Does that make them Hindus as well? Furthermore, you do agree that Dharma isn't just a religious term. Right? But I do agree with you on appropriation. Indians need to own the term, and define what it is, so that Sanskritic/Indic terms used in the west are well defined. In that sense a sort of sanskritization* of Engl…

Perhaps you are conflating the relationship between Sikhism and Hinduism with relationship between Vaishnavs and Shaivites. Sikhism categorically rejects Hinduism and I would respect their wishes. Vaishnavs, Shaivites, ISKON jostle/debate to be viewed as the true interpreters of the scriptures. They do not reject their relationship. And that makes them Hindus.
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