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Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

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Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#151

Post by girvo »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #125
girvo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that interesting. Heroin and morphine both have a much nicer high than Fentanyl, taking IV recreationally — at least they did for me, back when I was an addict

I took Hydrocodone recreationally once, as I had some leftovers from my ribcage injury. Aside from enhanced dreams and occasional hypnogogia, I still didn’t really see the appeal. You can achieve the same euphoria with THC (IIRC, OPRM1 gene expression is altered upon consumption of THC). OPRM1 is an interesting gene, though. Habitual use of morphine (and other substances like alcohol, OPRM1 expression is implicated i…

Hydrocodone is comparatively weak, and as it’s a codeine derivative it’s at the mercy of your particular genes and how they express CYP2D6 — my girlfriend is a terrible metaboliser of it, and so a lot of narcotics don’t work very well for her. It’s fascinating stuff.

Edit: also, you really can’t get the same euphoria from THC. Similar, sure, but not the same — THC doesn’t build life destroying addiction though, so definitely recommend instead!

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#152

Post by candiodari »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #146
Koshkin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, who was to blame for the 19th century Opium Wars? The Chinese?

I'm not sure what you're angling at with this weird historical whataboutism. Are you saying that it's acceptable for Chinese companies and gangs to manufacture opiates and ship them off to the USA because Britain and the USA went to war with China 150 years ago to enforce the opium trade?

But ... but ... ! Clearly the west (which obviously doesn't include ME ! wheiiiiiiiiiiiii) is to blame for every problem !

My shoelaces are untied too. Damn colonialists !

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#153

Post by mmt »

dang wrote: post #113
arca_vorago wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the CIA fucking learned it from? MI6 (who learned it in opium wars 1&2) taught to OSS (CIA) how to get funding off books so congress couldn't pull the purse strings and they could do whatever they wanted... and this has indeed been proven multiple times... You are the same kind of person who called us talking about NSA pre-Snowden "tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists" and then post-Snowden came out wi…

This crosses into personal attack. We ban accounts that do that. Please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

Isn't that being a tad overly-sensitive over what is, essentially, a technicality?

I agree that the tone borders on uncivil maybe crosses over with some vulgar language, but the only part that could be construed as ad-hominem is the phrase "You are the same kind of person" and, even then, the rest of the sentence goes on to accuse the commentor of making an argument by providing an analogy.

No name-calling occurred.

Threatening to ban someone for posting a comment that does, overall, make an important point, even when phrased awkwardly or not in the most civil way possible, is likely to have a chilling effect and "destroy intellectual curiosity", to borrow from the guidelines.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#154

Post by candiodari »

Reading from the article, one gets quite a few quite damning impressions:

1) fentanyl is apparently mostly delivered just through mail. Mail is apparently not inspected at all and walking into a post office with dozens of envelopes/packages with drugs is apparently not very likely to get you caught.

1 addendum) the post is not even going to stop you doing this AFTER YOU GET CAUGHT.

2) nor is getting your clients caught with the stuff. Tracking stuff back through the postal service is apparently not done, or not possible.

3) importing large quantities of fentanyl, cannabis and marihuana right through customs ... apparently not a problem. Not caught for years.

4) apparently paypal is perfectly A-okay with drug money. Funny how plenty of people seem to get their accounts blocked for this, yet this operation totally escaped all attention.

5) the drugs business is a full service operation. Next day delivery, credit card payments, tracking numbers for shipments (!), ... none of it apparently helped the police. Even sending a free replacement shipping when one "got caught by customs" did not let them track the source.

6) the police apparently got "live monitoring" going on a gmail account, which is how they found him.

All the ways the police COULD have tracked this yet missed ... and the extremely objectionable way they did track it. Clearly this is the default way the police works now. Get all online accounts to track people before doing so much as visiting the post office. At least they went through a judge I guess.

I mean this article is obviously a bragging attempt by the police, and yet I find it extremely objectionable how the police and the rest of the state operated in this operation.

Publishing this article and bragging about this given the state of these systems will obviously massively increase these businesses' reach.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#155

Post by ShabbosGoy »

girvo wrote: post #151
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took Hydrocodone recreationally once, as I had some leftovers from my ribcage injury. Aside from enhanced dreams and occasional hypnogogia, I still didn’t really see the appeal. You can achieve the same euphoria with THC (IIRC, OPRM1 gene expression is altered upon consumption of THC). OPRM1 is an interesting gene, though. Habitual use of morphine (and other substances like alcohol, OPRM1 expression is implicated i…

Hydrocodone is comparatively weak, and as it’s a codeine derivative it’s at the mercy of your particular genes and how they express CYP2D6 — my girlfriend is a terrible metaboliser of it, and so a lot of narcotics don’t work very well for her. It’s fascinating stuff. Edit: also, you really can’t get the same euphoria from THC. Similar, sure, but not the same — THC doesn’t build life destroying addiction though, so de…

> Edit: also, you really can’t get the same euphoria from THC. Similar, sure, but not the same — THC doesn’t build life destroying addiction though, so definitely recommend instead!

I can see that. THC feels like a “cleaner” mental euphoria to me, especially without the synergistic effects of cannabinoids like CBD and CBN.

I noticed both physical and mental euphoria with Hydrocodone. Not unlike the pleasure of wearing a warm sweater and sitting by the fire on a bitingly cold winter’s day.

In my case, I didn’t like the sluggishness (and itchiness!) associated with that feeling, though.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#156

Post by dang »

mmt wrote: post #153
dang wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This crosses into personal attack. We ban accounts that do that. Please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

Isn't that being a tad overly-sensitive over what is, essentially, a technicality? I agree that the tone borders on uncivil maybe crosses over with some vulgar language, but the only part that could be construed as ad-hominem is the phrase "You are the same kind of person" and, even then, the rest of the sentence goes on to accuse the commentor of making an argument by providing an analogy. No name-calling occurred.…

It's a trope of getting personal on the internet to say "you are the kind of person who". Both aspects are bad, not just the personalness but also the tropiness, because by definition it repeats very easily. It's important to nip that in the bud. And it's not like it's necessary to make any substantive point.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#157

Post by mmt »

dang wrote: post #156
mmt wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that being a tad overly-sensitive over what is, essentially, a technicality? I agree that the tone borders on uncivil maybe crosses over with some vulgar language, but the only part that could be construed as ad-hominem is the phrase "You are the same kind of person" and, even then, the rest of the sentence goes on to accuse the commentor of making an argument by providing an analogy. No name-calling occurred.…

It's a trope of getting personal on the internet to say "you are the kind of person who". Both aspects are bad, not just the personalness but also the tropiness, because by definition it repeats very easily. It's important to nip that in the bud. And it's not like it's necessary to make any substantive point.

But what is getting personal? Other than the use of the word "person", there is no actual reference to anyone's person.

The personal aspect would be bad, except it doesn't exist.

The tropiness of the phrase I'll take your word for, as I don't frequent any other online discussion sites. It certainly doesn't add to the discussion.

Is a phrase that is extraneous, currently popular/cliche, and merely possibly offensive because it's typically used ad-hominem elsewhere, really cause for threatening to ban a user?

I think you're over-reacting.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#158

Post by munchhausen »

While Chinese authorities control fentanyl, they’ve been slow to ban new analogues. And they didn’t begin restricting fentanyl’s two most common ingredients until this year, more than a decade after the U.S. (...) And unlike in the U.S., anyone can sell or purchase pill presses, which dealers use to trick addicts into thinking they’re buying milder drugs like OxyContin when they’re actually getting fentanyl.

I am amazed at what I read as a not-so-subtle suggestion, writ between the lines, that China is doing something wrong by not policing analogs and precursors more vigorously, and allowing the sale of pill presses.

China is a sovereign country, and, given that they do not have a massive problem with opioid addiction, there is little incentive for them to invest a lot of time and effort into expanding the war on drugs within their borders.

Perhaps, instead of blaming China for their problems, the US can take a long, hard look at their failed drug policies and dysfunctional healthcare industry (after all, over-subscription of legal opioids is what led to the current wave of addiction), and start to figure an honest, self-reliant way out the mess that they're in.

Interestingly enough, there's next to no problem with fentanyl in many European countries. Yet these same countries happily do trade with China, there are no embargoes in place or anything of that sort. I find that quite revealing.

Re: Deadly Chinese Fentanyl Is Creating a New Era of Drug Kingpins

#160

Post by munchhausen »

nacho2sweet wrote: post #49

Fentanyl is a huge problem in Vancouver, where we are usually ground zero for all new opiate trends. Besides killing over 1100 people a year in BC, the money also seeps back into our overheated real-estate market through casino money laundering. It is a crazy cycle. I have no idea why world governments and our own don't say and do more against China. Spineless.

Why do you bring "world governments" into it? Most of the world has next to no problem with fentanyl. Why, then, is "most of the world" supposed to "do more against" China?

The problems that the US and Canada have with opioids are of their own making, and that's also where they should look for a solution to these problems.

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