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Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

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Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#71
post #8

Yes, they can be both popular and silenced. Steven Pinker mentions in the Better Angels of Our Nature (and possibly also elsewhere) that a group of people (even relatively small one) can be in a situation where everybody disagrees with some policy, yet everybody follows it, because they believe that everybody else agrees with it. That's why allowing dissent is important, to get out of such tricky situations.

Was he referring to the Abilene paradox?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#72
post #61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universities are so far left there's a university ethics professor who smashed an alt right protester's skull in with a bike lock. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/05...

Nice anecdote. I have one, the conservative billionaire Koch brothers use donations to force conservative curriculum and the hiring of conservative professors at several universities.

Oh no, a whole several.

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#73
post #45

It's ridiculous because they are incredibly powerful, have won the debate, and continue winning. I mean, social justice is now considered a bad thing. Your evil has won, congratulations.

> I mean, social justice is now considered a bad thing.

Location, location, location!

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice anecdote. I have one, the conservative billionaire Koch brothers use donations to force conservative curriculum and the hiring of conservative professors at several universities.

Oh no, a whole several.

That's more than the anecdote I was responding to.

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#75
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our culture as produced in books/film/tv/music is dominated by left leaning beliefs. This could either be a conspiracy comprising of every author of every medium... OR It's because stories need sympathetic characters, and current Republican values aren't sympathetic. I'm not trying to be divisive or flippant, though I'm sure this will be the effect. But success in media is driven by believable sympathetic character…

> It's because stories need sympathetic characters, and current Republican values aren't sympathetic. What makes you think that?

Things like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/26/senat...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbo-score-on-latest-senate-gop-...

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/28/senate-gop-health-care-bill-...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2017/09/18/graham-cas...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/04/18...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20...

And this one is a two-fold: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/supreme-court-upho...

Both that the Garland-seat was stolen, but also sad that the supreme court is so partisan (cuts both ways).

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#76
post #55
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our culture as produced in books/film/tv/music is dominated by left leaning beliefs. This could either be a conspiracy comprising of every author of every medium... OR It's because stories need sympathetic characters, and current Republican values aren't sympathetic. I'm not trying to be divisive or flippant, though I'm sure this will be the effect. But success in media is driven by believable sympathetic character…

>and current Republican values aren't sympathetic Tell that to the electoral college.

I'm unsure, but I'm guessing you're saying that because they won the electoral college they're sympathetic?

The results of the prior three elections had the winner also recieve the popular vote, and this voter turnout was at a 20 year low, involving the two most unpopular candidates since at least 10 election cycles back.

But most of all, I don't think the voting (in general) was motivated by sympathy, but by discontent.

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could easily come up with data Yes, you could. And it's been done: The Skeptics are Wrong Part 1-3: Attitudes About Free Speech On Campus are Changing https://heterodoxacademy.org/skeptics-are-wrong-about-campus... https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-skeptics-are-wrong-part-2/ https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-skeptics-are-wrong-part-3-i... You're welcome! :-)

Thanks, I'll look at this, though I would advise retaining some skepticism when evaluating data from a single source, especially when that data is confirmatory of that source's stated mission. Here's some more to evaluate: http://jmrphy.net/blog/2018/02/16/who-is-afraid-of-free-spee...

You might want to consider that the stated mission was a product of the data, particularly in the case of the heterodox academy.

Not everything is a partisan slugfest.

Re: Can Things Be Both Popular and Silenced?

#79

As someone who reads and listen these people who are called "the intellectual dark web" I would not call them a group of intellectuals. Haidt and Pinker being exceptions. I like to listen Sam Harris and have read a little Mr. Peterson and even listen Joe Rogan who gets into the list somehow. If I criticize these guys it does not mean that I think their net contribution is net negative. Sam Harris is smart and nice to…

You mostly got blowback in response, but as someone who also read almost all of these people (and listened a bit) I want to say that your descriptions resonated with me. I don't know if it's very important to distinguish who's an "intellectual" and who isn't, but I think your brief assessment is thoughtful and mostly on the money from my perspective.
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