Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#181

Post by veddox » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:40 AM UTC

phicoh wrote: post #69

thebradbain wrote: post #55

If worst comes to worst and EU tries to break up Facebook — and it seems likely they might — what would be Facebook’s best path forward? Theoretically, would it send a stronger signal to US regulators if Facebook simply shut down all operation in the EU? A pop up message to all EU citizens along the lines of “You may no longer access Facebook from within the EU due to X Y and Z from your government. As such, all of y…

Just my impression: if this was Google, then yes. It is very hard to replace Google at this point in time. Facebook is on its way out. Due to the network effect, Facebook will stay relevant for a long time. But if Facebook would leave the EU then it wouldn't take long for other social networks to take its place. Facebook is relevant because everybody is on Facebook. Not because it is such a great service. Personally,…

I agree with that analysis. The main reason why Facebook is relevant in Europe is because everybody is still on it - but actual usage is steadily decreasing, especially in the younger generation. Most communications nowadays is done via WhatsApp, but that is trivial to replace. (Telegram is already quite popular, and then there is Signal, Threema, etc.)

Of course, it would be a blow for individuals if all their uploaded content was suddenly locked. But at least in Germany FB already has such a bad reputation that public indignation might center more on the company than on the EU regulators.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#182

Post by matlock » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #152

matlock wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really do your research before saying things like "stop passing silly laws regulating the form of cucumbers" https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/straight-cucumbers/ This was to make it clearer across all Markets what products you buy to make a single market easier on everyone. This is just FUD that really shouldn't be part of this conversation.

It's not FUD, its not a myth, its real: Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1677/88 of 15 June 1988 laying down quality standards for cucumbers [1] Yes i know this regulation is no longer in place, thats not the point. The point is that the EU is a overblown bureaucracy that should not be in charge of regulating every silly little aspect of life across the various member states. And yes, they are STILL passing laws like t…

Other people already pointed out the mistakes in your argument as this is necessary to build a common market across dozens of countries and hundreds of millions of people. Please read up on what the EU is trying to do, you really don't seem to have a grasp on it.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#183

Post by wierd0 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #154

Dumbdo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it seems like this guy doesn't even know how the EU works. If you reduce it to "they regulate cucumbers but don't care about real threats" you probably fell for some cheap propaganda but it doesn't speak for your understanding of EU regulations.

Its not FUD, its not a myth, its not cheap propaganda, its real: Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1677/88 of 15 June 1988 laying down quality standards for cucumbers [1] Yes i know this regulation is no longer in place, thats not the point. The point is that the EU is a overblown bureaucracy that should not be in charge of regulating every silly little aspect of life across the various member states. And yes, they are…

> Do you honestly believe that the average citizen wants highly paid bureaucrats in Brussels debating on how much power a vacuum cleaner should draw?

I certainly do. Wait, there is no equivalent discussion of power draw of vacuum cleaners in the US? Well, then the EU might be at the forefront of consumer electronics regulations and in the end, that's very good for me.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#184

Post by veddox » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #19

Most press I’ve read so far in Europe is largely neutral or positive about Zuckerberg but very negative about the procedings, the parliament and conduct of the representatives. This is unusual but in my option justified. Here is one particularly devastating article (Google Translate): https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...

Deutsche Welle is critical of Zuckerberg, so is the BBC (to a slightly lesser extent).

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#185

Post by sparkling » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #105

repolfx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both. Verhofstadt is a full-blown European federalist (people who want Europe to be united under a single government and single flag). The fortunes of that dream have not been good lately, and he's looking for people to blame that aren't people like himself. I find it pathetic. Verhofstadt and people like him are one of the things that turned me off the EU and turned me into a Brexit voter. They routinely descri…

As an EU resident I am so, so glad immigration and terrorism are not priorities. There are more important things to worry about (such as privacy, housing, equality, welfare).

You realize that massive refugee influx directly affects topics such as housing, equality, welfare - right?

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#186

Post by gepi79 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

jonathanstrange wrote: post #143

repolfx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both. Verhofstadt is a full-blown European federalist (people who want Europe to be united under a single government and single flag). The fortunes of that dream have not been good lately, and he's looking for people to blame that aren't people like himself. I find it pathetic. Verhofstadt and people like him are one of the things that turned me off the EU and turned me into a Brexit voter. They routinely descri…

Well, I'm also a full-blown federalist, although I understand very well why people don't like the idea. I'm still hoping to be able to hold a genuine European passport in my hand that states "European" as nationality and "German" as mother tongue. Here is the main reason why I favour a genuine union with a partially joint military, a strengthened power for the European Parliament, and less power for appointed commiss…

* Unfortunately, younger generations have lost sight of this, some of them erroneously believe that wars could not start again in Europe without the EU. That's very short-sighted, historically, Europe has been torn by wars almost all the time. *

We live in different times today. 2018 is not 1918. I would be worried if younger generations could imagine to waste their lives and their wealth for war.

The problem is that too many of the younger generations trust the older generations (current politicians) which trust in lies and wars as solutions. E.g. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Israel.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#187

Post by munchhausen » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

It amazes me how both the hearing at the US senate, and the one at the European Parliament, were marred by an absurdly ineffectual format of the Q&A session.

You'd think that having achieved the seemingly hardest part, which was to get Zuck to talk to these bodies at all, care will be taken to make the most of the opportunity. Rather, the complete opposite has taken place.

I found it laughable how many times I've heard, during the US Senate session, an injunction addressed to the speaker to wrap it up, as their allotted time was up. The entire thing was rushed as if they were in a hurry to catch a train.

Is the Cambridge Analytica fiasco alone not reason enough to keep Zuckerberg in the hot chair for 12 hours over 2 days, if need be, if that is what is ultimately required to get him to actually divulge meaningful information, rather than the sound bites that he happily served up?

It seems that these hearings were mostly carried out for show, and rather than actually protect the interests of their constituents, these legislative bodies are content to operate on a purely formalistic level, devoid of any actual meaning. This is global politicians v.2018 for you - fumbling, toothless, woefully out of their depth on crucial issues of our time.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#188

Post by zingmars » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:49 AM UTC

gerhams wrote: post #156

sparkling wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying the EU is doing "better than ever" but yet, in every recent national election in the EU we have seen massive wins for anti-EU parties and movements? Just to name a few: Czech Republic, Italy, Poland, Hungary, France. Add to that a failing currency, massive debt in the southern EU member states, the next banking crisis ready to come. Do you believe that it is a sustainable model to have Germany guara…

You sound like you don't own a passport and just repeat fearmongering you hear on the news Please get a passport, visit Europe, and then have an informed opinion. I can't speak personally for the eastern or southern states but here in central europe things are quite peachy. The central/west/northern parts of Europe are the most stable in the world, I doubt that will change soon, regardless of what happens elsewhere.…

You didn't really address his points though. He named multiple countries in which Eurosceptics are on the rise, and that is going to become a problem in time for EU. Hell, even here in Latvia anti-EU sentiments are (albeit slowly) becoming more widespread. I don't think there will be a fall anytime soon, but we certainly have interesting times ahead of us.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#189

Post by makapuf » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

CapacitorSet wrote: post #39

ericdykstra wrote: post #21

If anything, this kind of regulation helps companies like Facebook keep their "monopoly", because it raises the monetary cost of starting a competitor. A number of smaller services and games have shut down due to increased cost of compliance, even for companies that don't have any privacy issues.

Is Facebook monopoly any worse than having multiple actors in the data collection field? If anything, having more competitors would push each to be more cunning in their collection and retention of data, to appear more valuable to stakeholders. One evil is better than two.

Or having more competitors would push them to ask for data portability and thus transparency.

Re: Zuckerberg didn’t make any friends in Europe today

#190

Post by rmc » Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

mikejb wrote: post #136

plopilop wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By large-but-immaterial, do you mean the money escaped via tax fraud and illegal tax cuts?

'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. Countries try to offer companies a system to provide ridiculously low tax rates for larger regions, because if they get 1% of the revenue of the entire region it's more beneficial to them than getting 20% of their local revenue (numbers are fict…

Ireland also benefits from lots of highly paid, highly skilled employees, which it can tax, and also people are happy because there are jobs and oppertunities in Ireland. Many of the big name US tech companies in Ireland employee thousands of people each.