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Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

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Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#71

Post by mmt »

justin66 wrote: post #68
mmt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch Huh? How is engine braking (or, for that matter anything ) on a fully-engaged dry clutch going to reduce its lifetime?

It won't. Unless the clutch is damaged and slipping, or slipping because your foot is resting on the pedal, it's all locked together and it's not going to wear. You will always cause a bit of wear to the clutch while shifting, but that's a different conversation. (with all the rev matching that the newest manual transmissions will do for you, I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger ca…

That was, essentially, my point. (Foot resting on the pedal heavily enough that it slips doesn't count as fully engaged, of course).

> I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger car will become a thing of the past

My gut says that clutches wear far more from starting at a dead stop than from any gear changes in motion, so taking rev-matching out of the hands (foot) of the human won't make enough of a difference.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#72

Post by [deleted] »

greglindahl wrote: post #69
justin66 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. Unless the clutch is damaged and slipping, or slipping because your foot is resting on the pedal, it's all locked together and it's not going to wear. You will always cause a bit of wear to the clutch while shifting, but that's a different conversation. (with all the rev matching that the newest manual transmissions will do for you, I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger ca…

Well, if most cars become electric and have one gear, it's safe to say that your question will be answered "yes".

[deleted]

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#73

Post by mmt »

greglindahl wrote: post #64
mmt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of that model before passing judgment. Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences…

The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I…

> will be released when they need to ship them

Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that different models routinely get released at different times (separated by months), but different option packages?

> The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

And? How does it drive?

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#74

Post by blub »

dave1619 wrote: post #8

I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues…

This comment was confusing to me because it's super-positive and doesn't mention the article, so I thought the article itself is also positive. However:

"Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures." "We put down a $1,000 deposit to get on a two-year waiting list for this car and it's falling apart."

Disclaimer: I work in automotive for not Tesla.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#75

Post by houssc »

greglindahl wrote: post #61
houssc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the key fob did work as others pointed out. However I'm sure there are still lots of unfinished things. When I was out in Chicago with my buddy late last year I got to drive the updated Model S and I noticed the windshield wipers wouldn't come on automatically whenever it rained. After digging through the menu we found a thing that said said something like "feature coming soon" for automatic wipers. Ki…

It's only Model S with AP2 that had that problem: the original S and the AP1 S both shipped with working automatic wipers on day 1. But yes, that's the kind of thing you should expect from Tesla... just like you should expect that the missing-but-common feature of backup-lines on the backup camera to be retroactively added 3 years after the initial cars shipped. Yin and yang.

Yea he has the AP2, thanks I forgot what it was called. Sadly that is the kind of thing I'd expect and it completely understandably takes away from the value of their products. Everyone has their own equation for what makes sense and I'm sure some are fine with these issues too. Good thing we have a free market with many options :-).

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#76

Post by justin66 »

mmt wrote: post #71
justin66 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. Unless the clutch is damaged and slipping, or slipping because your foot is resting on the pedal, it's all locked together and it's not going to wear. You will always cause a bit of wear to the clutch while shifting, but that's a different conversation. (with all the rev matching that the newest manual transmissions will do for you, I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger ca…

That was, essentially, my point. (Foot resting on the pedal heavily enough that it slips doesn't count as fully engaged, of course). > I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger car will become a thing of the past My gut says that clutches wear far more from starting at a dead stop than from any gear changes in motion, so taking rev-matching out of the hands (foot) of the human won't mak…

That's an interesting question. There's a lot more time spent slipping the clutch getting the car started, but there are higher RPMs and more power being transmitted through the partially-engaged flywheel and clutch during some of the other shifts. But yes, intuitively, it definitely feels like starting the car is when most of that wear happens, and if I had to bet I would bet that's right, at least during everyday driving.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#77

Post by greglindahl »

mmt wrote: post #73
greglindahl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I…

> will be released when they need to ship them Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that different models routinely get released at different times (separated by months), but different option packages? > The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance. And? How does it drive?

I gave you enough clues to guess how it drives, but if you don't want to guess, then I guess you'll have to wait. "Late 2018" is what the configurator tells me.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#78

Post by greglindahl »

houssc wrote: post #75
greglindahl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only Model S with AP2 that had that problem: the original S and the AP1 S both shipped with working automatic wipers on day 1. But yes, that's the kind of thing you should expect from Tesla... just like you should expect that the missing-but-common feature of backup-lines on the backup camera to be retroactively added 3 years after the initial cars shipped. Yin and yang.

Yea he has the AP2, thanks I forgot what it was called. Sadly that is the kind of thing I'd expect and it completely understandably takes away from the value of their products. Everyone has their own equation for what makes sense and I'm sure some are fine with these issues too. Good thing we have a free market with many options :-).

When I first got my S, if you left the windshield wipers on the automatic setting, and it had rained in the recent past, when you unlocked the car and opened the door, the wipers would activate once and throw water on you.

Mercedes, which uses the same wiper system, had the same bug.

The difference is that Mercedes never fixed those cars. Tesla did.

So yes, there are issues. But it's not a straight win for either Tesla or non-Tesla. It's just different.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#79

Post by rwbt »

dingaling wrote: post #53
rwbt wrote: post #3

A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic. > "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has…

> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always…

> More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go.

This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue.

> As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#80

Post by carlivar »

greglindahl wrote: post #37
jjeaff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look that price up, because I could have sworn the big talking points was the $35k price tag. And sure enough, average purchase estimates are swelling past $50k average and some paying closer to $60k.

Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other carmaker.

The long range battery ($9k) and premium interior ($5k) are mandatory. They are literally not options.
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