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CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

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Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#111

Post by mrep »

scarface74 wrote: post #71
realusername wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of browsers are still defaulting to Google, you used almost the only example (IE/Edge) which does not do that.

Microsoft could easily outbid Google to be the primary search engine on iOS and they could pay carriers to make Bing the primary search engines on the Android phones they sell.

Yep, and mozilla makes almost all of its revenue from google by setting the default search engine to google: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation#Financing

I find this funny since Google directly finances a competing browser.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#112

Post by annabellish »

gregknicholson wrote: post #84
telltruth wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a fair world, there would be an option in Google for "Show me reviews from X" where users are forced to select X (i.e. no defaults provided). The problem is that Yelp is the one who wants to be monopoly and they would never agreed to this. They don't want Google Maps to show any reviews at all. Instead they insist that people must take an additional step to go to Yelp's own website for reviews. This is unworkable…

> In a fair world, there would be an option in Google… In a fair world, if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider. Google's search service has always used a business model like “give us your query; we'll apply our proprietary algorithm and return results”. If you don't like those results, you don't like Google's service. You can ask them to change their service s…

>if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider

In the real world, this isn't always a clear option. If I run a restaurant I cannot cause everyone who might visit it to switch to a different maps provider.

For the users, there _isn't_ a comparable service to Google Maps. The competition is fairly incomparable. This is a scenario which is only going to keep happening more often and worse as we move deeper into systems where _data_ is the differentiating factor. Competition becomes impossible when you're starting from zero and the entrenched player has decades of good, clean data.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#113

Post by jacksmith21006 »

greggman wrote: post #38

Yelp is crying sour grapes here. There are so many ways they could have innovated to stay relevant but has anything changed in years there? They could have hired professional reviewers. Yelp reviews are notoriously bad. They could have let you choose what you prefer, example (quality vs quantity) and given you custom ratings or only included reviews from people that share similar tastes. Following up on the last idea…

Watched the segment and completely agree. I was shocked this segment even made it on 60 minutes.

It was just Yelp sour grapes and curious how it even made it on 60 minutes?

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#114

Post by jacksmith21006 »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #30
telltruth wrote: post #19

CBS interview leaves out critical details. Initially, Google was scrapping Yelp reviews to show snippets in their Google Places product. Yelp CEO didn't liked that and demanded to remove all snippets. Google said it had right to show snippets like any other websites and if Yelp says their content is "private" then Google shouldn't be crawling them at all. That's what they did. This caused Yelp to disappear from Googl…

> Personally, I don't think Google should be obliged to promote all kind of crappy 2nd rate products out there. Who is to decide what is a crappy 2nd rate product? To me, Yelp seems to be the superior product since it has more reviews while having no financial benefit from manipulating reviews. Can the same be held true for Google? > They are the ones who want big price for their theft from millions of hours donated…

Superior? Yelp is awful. Make a better product and it would be higher in search. This is sour grapes and really worry we are going to end up with a worse search engine.

There were many search engines before Google. Reason Google won is because they provide better results.

Heck MS owns the desktop and still lost search.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#115

Post by jacksmith21006 »

kolleykibber wrote: post #33
telltruth wrote: post #19

CBS interview leaves out critical details. Initially, Google was scrapping Yelp reviews to show snippets in their Google Places product. Yelp CEO didn't liked that and demanded to remove all snippets. Google said it had right to show snippets like any other websites and if Yelp says their content is "private" then Google shouldn't be crawling them at all. That's what they did. This caused Yelp to disappear from Googl…

Google's results are better than yelps. As soon as that isn't true, I'll download yelp again.

Exactly and why Yelp is lower down. Where it should be.

Instead of Yelp b*tching on 60 minutes they should fix the service and then they would be higher on search.

It is how it works.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#116

Post by jacksmith21006 »

mieseratte wrote: post #107
krn wrote: post #64

When I want to buy something, I type "amazon.com", not "google.com". So, why don't I type "yelp.com", when I want to go somewhere? There is nothing to complain about, when your product sucks.

> When I want to buy something, I type "amazon.com", not "google.com". I do the exact opposite, I either search a specific business' site or Google something vague like "sturdy cargo pants," find a brand / store that I like and visit that store. I've been burned too many times by cheap, fake shit from Amazon. I'm not willing to deal with the hassle and wasted time.

Same. I start on Google and then usually buy on Amazon. Google has the Amazon links like they should and it is high on the list even though Amazon is Google chief competitor.

Reason being Amazon is popular and offers a great service. Versus Yelp is horrible so not high on the list.

Kind of indicates Google search is working how it should and Yelp just has sour grapes.

Now if Amazon moved to the second page that would be something to put on 60 minutes.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#117

Post by jacksmith21006 »

I use Google all day long. I start there for pretty much everything.

Looking for a product I start on Google and usually end up buying on Amazon.com. Amazon is Google's chief competitor yet it is one of the first couple links that come back.

Reason?

Because Amazon offers a great product and is popular and therefore high on the list returned.

Versus Yelp is awful and not high on the list. Google search is working how it should.

Yelp create a better product like Amazon and you get high on the list.

But how in the world did this story even get on 60 minutes? Does Yelp know someone at CBS?

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#118

Post by scarface74 »

mrep wrote: post #111
scarface74 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft could easily outbid Google to be the primary search engine on iOS and they could pay carriers to make Bing the primary search engines on the Android phones they sell.

Yep, and mozilla makes almost all of its revenue from google by setting the default search engine to google: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation#Financing I find this funny since Google directly finances a competing browser.

Neither Firefox nor iOS are “competitors” for Google. Google’s main business is advertising and collecting data. Both Chrome and Android are means to that end. Google wants to be wherever the users are, whether that’s on Android, iOS, Chrome, or Firefox.

For years, Google made more money on iOS than Android even after Androids market share eclipsed iOS’s market share.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#119

Post by jacksmith21006 »

soup10 wrote: post #99
greggman wrote: post #38

Yelp is crying sour grapes here. There are so many ways they could have innovated to stay relevant but has anything changed in years there? They could have hired professional reviewers. Yelp reviews are notoriously bad. They could have let you choose what you prefer, example (quality vs quantity) and given you custom ratings or only included reviews from people that share similar tastes. Following up on the last idea…

I’m bullish on yelp still, they have the highest quality community sourced reviews, a forward thinking engineering team, and energetic management. I think they will pull through and continue to be competitive with Google, but they need better marketing!

Is there two Yelps?

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#120

Post by camillomiller »

dalbasal wrote: post #77
camillomiller wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, but a company’s abuse of dominant position isn’t defined by the quality of their competitor’s offer.

You are right, at least in the traditional anti-trust-ish legal sense as I understand it. In a wider more pedestrian sense, there is a some kettle-pot-black involved here, at least in my opinion. Yelp's a little monopolistic middle man. Everyone reads and writes reviews on Yelp because everyone reads and writes reviews on Yelp. Market dominance today is the main ingredient for dominance tomorrow. Everyone uses Google…

I agree that the matter is multi-faceted, of course. I just wanted to point out that we can't use a competing service's quality to assess whether market dominance was exerted or not. Neither I think it can be an extenuating factor. One isn't any less a murderer if they kill another murderer.

Should a different case (maybe a class action) be brought against Yelp for abusing its position and momentum to force restaurants into joining the platform? Probably yes, but it would be a different case which, albeit rightful, has nothing to do with the Yelp-Google case.

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