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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#641

Post by dkersten »

nocman wrote: post #526
dkersten wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might see it as question dodging, which often implies the negative.

There's a difference between avoiding answering a question to prevent hurting someone's feelings, and doing so just to put yourself in a positive light (for selfish reasons). The scenario I was envisioning was the former. Yeah I understand that some people try to spin everything their way, and I know it's annoying. My point was that just because someone doesn't answer a question or doesn't tell you everything they th…

My point is that some people will always see avoiding answering questions negatively, no matter what way you feel it should be seen. You can’t control how other people interpret your acitons or intentions, they may not match up with what you want, and in my personal experience, people tend to see avoiding answering a question (either by sidestepping it or by counter-questioning) negatively, if they notice it.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#642

Post by dkersten »

nocman wrote: post #616
lovich wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking to people is not computer code. In this admittedly contrived situation, they are looking for you to say it's good. You give an answer _to a different question_. Either people realize and you've violated the social expectation or they don't realize and you've misdirected them. Avoiding the question in a way that's misleading people has the same result as a lie even if not technically the same thing If you refu…

"Talking to people is not computer code." irrelevant. I never said it was. Also, saying "thank you for making it" isn't answering a question at all , so it isn't "answering a different question". "The entire camp of people in this thread" with my viewpoint simply disagree with you. You attribute dishonesty to things we would say, when we know that saying those things would be honest. So you can keep reiterating the s…

Dishonesty is about misleading somebody, regardless of what you say. You can say 100% truthful things and still mislead people, which is still dishonest. A common method of dishonesty is by omitting important things. We are saying that we feel that your response is sidestepping the question asked of you, which is dishonest by omission, because this omission misleads. Communication is about more than the words you say.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#643

Post by wl »

M_Bakhtiari wrote: post #630
ControlledBurn wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, kind of. There's a no atheists allowed rule last I checked (A belief in a supreme being and scripture is a condition of membership), but they're not picky about what god(s) you might worship.

That's the root of the problem of freemasonry. It means that a freemason have to hold contradictory positions as true. One might be an atheist by one cannot reject the so-called supreme being, one might belong to an Abrahamic religion but one cannot reject the Hindu pantheon. And within the Abrahamic religions it's more contentious than anything. It's an expression of the Orwellian "2 + 2 = 5", and it's a very danger…

That's completely incorrect. Freemasonry expects religious tolerance. That is, Freemasonry generally believes people have the right to believe and practice religion as their conscience dictates. That also means that generally speaking, Freemasons should respect the religious beliefs of others. That doesn't mean Freemasons are required to adopt other people's religious beliefs or refrain from disagreeing with them.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#644

Post by segmondy »

Clubber wrote: post #611
dx034 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stupid? As a take-home exercise it doesn't sound too bad. Won't take forever to solve but still requires some understanding of algorithms. Not as easy as FizzBuzz but also nothing you can't solve after work.

1. The candidate must know how roman numerals work to pass. (This was before OP said it was a take home test which makes it a little better, but ...) 2. The question uses the term "decimal," rather than "integer." Roman numerals don't account for decimal numbers, so it's not even an accurately answerable question as posed. 3. When you google Roman Numerals and decimal, the first link tells you this. I assume the writ…

It was a typo. Not decimal. But whatever.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#645

Post by extra88 »

magduf wrote: post #633
extra88 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd most likely hire a lawyer and sue you. This is America so anyone can sue for anyone for anything but what exactly do you think the grounds would be for a suit? I won't call without your consent, I have no intent to cause you harm, if the reference calls go well you'll even likely get a job offer.

>I won't call without your consent The way you wrote it, it seemed you were going to just call the employee's current manager. I would NEVER give you consent for that. I don't know what kind of screwed-up industry that would ever be the norm in. Doing this is grounds for a lawsuit because it will most likely result in termination of the employee from his current job. >if the reference calls go well you'll even likely…

> The way you wrote it, it seemed you were going to just call the employee's current manager.

I wrote, "Checking references is one of the last things we do and insist that one be their a [sic] current manager". I thought that made it clear we ask the candidate for references and that one be their current manager.

> The reference call almost guarantees the person will lose his current job.

Not everyone is like you, I wouldn't fire someone for applying for a job. If you wouldn't fire someone for it either, why do you assume almost every manager is not like you or me and would fire them?

> There's expectations of privacy that go with job-hunting

But by giving me consent to call your manager, that expectation is gone.

Take it with a grain of salt but this post [0] addresses "outing" a candidate.

Q: can a prospective employer tip off my boss that I’m job-searching? A: It’s legal, but it’s really, really crappy.

[0] http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/can-a-prospective-employe...

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#646

Post by dorkwood »

thyrsus wrote: post #403
f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

I got the impression from the article that this was for a sales position - "AE role" - account executive. A good tech sales rep must have a solid understanding of the product and its place in the tech environment, but they also need to be trustworthy, to the benefit of both their employer and customer.

I thought it was an After Effects role.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#648

Post by LloydPickering »

mrbill wrote: post #640
LloydPickering wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fascinating! In England we are a lot more easy going over the proficiency required to progress. Normally your proposer or a lodge mentor will chat with you and go through your questions and responses, but there isn't any certificates etc. When the candidate is asked the questions to prove proficiency he is accompanied by the relevant Deacon who will prompt him, and in some cases actually prompt the whole thing…

That's pretty much how it's done here - if you freeze up during the "official" presentation you'll get helped and prompted and so forth. The Certificates I refer to are completely separate from proficiency - they're "add-on" exams / certifications from Grand Lodge that show you've learned the work 100% backwards and forwards. I think GLoTX now requires an A certificate for anyone moving up to WM. I do have to say I l…

Shorts and a t-shirt would very much be scandalous! In fact there's a good chance the Tyler wouldn't let you in.

Normal lodge dress code is a dark suit and black tie (or the relevant masonic tie). Some lodges like mine are Dinner Jackets (Tuxedo). Provincial and Grand Officers wear a 3 piece morning suit (striped trousers with a black waistcoat and jacket).

My lodge is meeting tonight so I'm sat at work with my DJ trousers and a white shirt on and my DJ jacket in a suit carrier.

I agree that the man is more important than the exterior, but the way we view things over here is that it's not much to afford a black suit nowadays, and it means everyone looks more or less 'uniform' and therefore on the level. Culturally we tend be rather formal over here anyway.

We once held a meeting on the same night as a carol service in our local cathedral, so we were told that we were just going to open and close the lodge and open the festive board more like a ladies evening and DJ wasn't necessary due to the service, just wear a lounge suit. I wore a black suit as per normal, but with an orange tie and that caused quite a stir!

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#649

Post by Clubber »

segmondy wrote: post #644
Clubber wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The candidate must know how roman numerals work to pass. (This was before OP said it was a take home test which makes it a little better, but ...) 2. The question uses the term "decimal," rather than "integer." Roman numerals don't account for decimal numbers, so it's not even an accurately answerable question as posed. 3. When you google Roman Numerals and decimal, the first link tells you this. I assume the writ…

It was a typo. Not decimal. But whatever.

Ya, whatever. I guess you failed that test, huh? You must be a bad programmer based on that. Better luck at your next interview.

See how silly the premise is?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#650

Post by dx034 »

Clubber wrote: post #649
segmondy wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a typo. Not decimal. But whatever.

Ya, whatever. I guess you failed that test, huh? You must be a bad programmer based on that. Better luck at your next interview. See how silly the premise is?

Isn't a quality of a software engineer to produce good code even when the specification isn't 100% correct? A lot of bad software exists because it was designed to only do what was written in the spec with no room for flexibility. Good engineers will have a dialogue with other stakeholders and clarify any issues and potential future uses.

That means, if you read decimals for roman numerals you'd ask them to clarify as there are no decimals, just integers. They'll admit the mistake and already know that you read the task properly.

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