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College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

nytimes.com

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Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#231

Post by H1Supreme »

SilasX wrote: post #94
awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

Yes, my HS counselor, in speeches to students at assemblies (c.1999), was constantly saying "It doesn't matter which college you go to, but you absolutely must get a degree."

As a 1999 graduate, I can verify the "College is the only way to succeed" sentiment from that time. Most of my class had applied for and been accepted well before we graduated.

Sadly, many of them acquired lots of debt, and not much else. I advise any young people I get to talk with about post high school education to not jump head first into a degree program. Life won't pass you by if you take a year or two to formulate a plan.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#233

Post by throwawayjava »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #174

If I was facing the decision to go to US college, I would be considering alternatives vs. paying full price at an Ivy League school. Just think what you could do on a fraction of the cost. - Travel the world - Take online programming courses i.e. Golang on Udemy - Use some of the capital to start a small online business I would then look into taking a software apprenticeship.

> vs. paying full price at an Ivy League school. Just think what you could do on a fraction of the cost.

Or the most obvious and common choice:

- go to literally any other college.

Also, of your alternatives, only one makes a lick of sense. Both

> Travel the world

and

> Use some of the capital to start a small online business

are 1) not actually options for anyone who has to take out loans for college, and 2) FAR more financially risky than the college route.

(2) is the most important point. Is college a great option? Often, no. However, are the plentiful better options? Often, no. (And the ones that do exist don't scale... not everyone can be a plumber.)

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#234

Post by jjuhl »

I'm almost entirely self taught. Started learning programming on my own on an Amiga 500 when I was 13. Dropped out of high-school since that way of learning did not appeal to me. Never had a lack of job offerings and I now earn the same (or more) than my CS and engineering graduate co-workers. A degree is not what matters, being able to learn and do the job is the important thing. How you gained your knowledge should be irrelevant as long as you do truly have it.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#235

Post by _8j50 »

Like any commodity,it's worth what people are willing to pay for it.

If your plan is to start a restaurant chain and get rich then a degree would not be profitable. But if your plan is to make a mediocre salary as an office worker then you need a college degree to make any kind of long term profit.

Not everyone should get a degree just like not everyone should buy a house,get married and have kids. It depends on who you are,your enviornment and priorities.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#236

Post by smnrchrds »

xkjkls wrote: post #194
derefr wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really want my doctor to actually have an MD How do you feel about the fact that doctors from foreign countries need to requalify in the US with a whole ‘nother MD program here? Even if they’re from a country with as-or-more stringent requirements, and decades of experience? “Higher education” is sometimes, in hiring, a dog-whistle for “enculturated to the US because they attended college here.”

> How do you feel about the fact that doctors from foreign countries need to requalify in the US with a whole ‘nother MD program here? Even if they’re from a country with as-or-more stringent requirements, and decades of experience? There are plenty of countries that do have MD programs that the United States recognizes, like Canada for instance. It's a political issue more than anything. If the medical licensing boa…

> There are plenty of countries that do have MD programs that the United States recognizes, like Canada for instance.

Are there any other countries besides Canada in that list? As far as I know, Canada- and US-educated doctors can practice anywhere in Canada or the US. Everyone else has to be "re-certified," which includes doing a residency in Canada or US. It is very competitive to get a residency placement. The results is that if you have not done a residency in the US or Canada, the rule of thumb is that it takes 10 years to get licensed to practice and you have a 10% chance of success.

In other words, the problem is not that licensing boards don't accept degrees from other countries, but that they don't accept residencies. And getting a residency spot is so competitive and such a long shot that few people can successfully do it.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#237

Post by sanxiyn »

sologoub wrote: post #24
meanmrmustard92 wrote: post #6

This massively misrepresents Tim Bartik's work on the topic. Bartik wrote a long thread here:Check out @TimBartik’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/TimBartik/status/996865804179263489?s=09

Reading the article I thought to myself that it’s a crappy piece that oversimplifies the complex landscape and tries to draw sensationalist conclusions... but after reading the Tweeter thread by the very scientist who’s work is cited, the article looks intentionally false and a retraction worthy. Instead of saying that college is not worth it, why don’t we do MORE to make it free? Even if people don’t end up using th…

Of course there are social downsides to free education! Education may become free for you, but it will not become free for the society.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#238

Post by fareesh »

chasing wrote: post #8

The issue isn't that college is pointless, it's that tuition is too high and wages too low. You should support politicians with a plan to counter this trend. Education is important. Raising the overall level of education in this country should be a much larger goal that it seems to be.

The government is not a force for good in the world. Data shows that in the vast majority of cases, government is an enemy of public good, by virtue of the people in government. I don't think regulation is the answer to this problem./

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#239

Post by blueseaadmin »

learc83 wrote: post #208
blueseaadmin wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My own daughter will be going into the Air Force in a couple of years. She's not one that would do well in the college environment. She fits in best where she is a part of something bigger than herself where there is guidance and discipline (like most kids). If she goes in at 18 after high school, she can earn a degree in 2.5 years at night in the Air Force. After her first 4 years she can choose to get out,…

The military could be a good choice for some people, but I don't know if I'd call it a great gig. Out of all the 10 or so people I know fairly well who are active duty or former military (Marines, Air Force, and Navy, I don't think I know any Army people unless you count National Guard). 2 have serious PTSD. 1 of those, my neighbor, was just arrested for forging pain med prescriptions--he got hooked after he was seri…

A young women going into the Air Force in a support role is highly unlikely to ever be near the front lines; that is the bailiwick of the Army and Marines. She wants to go into a PR role, so the chances of this are slim.

I grew up a military brat, did almost 10 years myself in the Corps. I was in during DS1 and almost no one I know from that "war" has PTSD. I personally know several Marines who sent dozens of people to their graves and they are are normal as anyone else. PTSD depends on the mental strength of the individual. My own grandfather (WWII in Asia) did a 20+ year career, and my dad (grunt in Vietnam) who also did a 20+ year career didn't suffer from PTSD. My dad was a machine gunner in Vietnam. He was involved in horrible circumstances. His unit was once embattled around a US airfield in a protection role against sappers, and every man on patrol was wounded as well as covered in leeches from fighting in the nasty water. He went on dozens of missions and did and saw all manner of stuff. My dad was well adjusted, went on to earn a master's degree in engineering, and was an all around swell guy.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#240

Post by H1Supreme »

xkjkls wrote: post #199
djrogers wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have a degree and have never run in to an issue with that fact. Came up once in an interview about 20 years ago for a very early job, and that’s the last I’ve heard of it.

The problem is usually getting the first couple opportunities. You don't need a degree if you've been in the industry awhile, but if you're trying to get a prestigious job it gets really easy to be filtered into thrown out stack of resumes.

This is the kicker. Getting your foot in the door is much, much easier with a degree. But, it doesn't mean it's the only way.

I got my first programming gig, sans degree, with my portfolio. My boss commented that my website, and descriptions of my projects, is what got me the interview.

Coming from graphic design, a portfolio is par for the course. But, I think some programmers will overlook the need for one. And no, I don't think Github projects serve as the same thing. A supplement? Yes. But, a proper site for your work can do wonders.

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