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Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#71

Post by SanityIsRare »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #43
evek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shady countries? Those are people and regular families...

Why does that idea repulse you? We see it regularly with countries high on the corruption scale. And given what we know about the tragedy of the commons, it makes sense to make money on a global tragedy (CFCs). I (a CFC producer) can make more than the loss everyone takes. Transparency International tries to uncover "shady" countries. You can see the results here: https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_…

Honestly, as a third-world citizen, I just can't fathom why anyone here would give a shit about ozone layer. We are extremely dismissive of those issues here because we care about the future of humanity and Earth a lot less that first-world populace. We have no incentive to protect the Earth so that children of first-worlders can live healthily in 2050 whenever.

You fucked us all up with colonialism and whatnot, and you still keep exploiting us like mad (not hyperbole - I get to see it). I guess payback will be sweet.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#72

Post by brorfred »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #45
caf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CFCs don't concentrate at the poles. The reason they have the strongest effect there, and not locally where they're produced or globally in the stratosphere, is because the stratosphere is very dry and only in the extreme cold of a polar winter can stratospheric clouds form. The particles in these clouds catalyse the reactions that allow a each free chlorine molecule to destroy many ozone molecules. That's also why t…

That seems like a valid explanation for the "start" of a hole if there was a continuous stream of _only_ CFCs and chlorine. Doesn't the ozone gas itself get blown around in the wind also? Wouldn't this mean that ozone would eventually fill the hole back up unless there was a steady stream of CFCs/chlorine to that one spot?

CFCs effectively function as a catalyzer and aren't consumed by the process, hence the hole is more of a Ozone sink. Wikipedia explains the effect of large-scale transport in the stratosphere well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#73

Post by CompelTechnic »

tom_ wrote: post #67

Now I know I'm old, because the headline refers to CFCs by symptom than by name... (Wikipedia article about the guy behind them, no one-trick pony: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr. )

>In 1940, at the age of 51, Midgley contracted poliomyelitis, which left him severely disabled. This led him to devise an elaborate system of strings and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. This was the eventual cause of his own death when he was entangled in the ropes of this device and died of strangulation at the age of 55

Wow.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#75

Post by kbutler »

SanityIsRare wrote: post #58
evek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shady countries? Those are people and regular families...

I live in one of those "shady" countries and I wish that I was never born.

Please get help to realize your value and the opportunities you have to contribute positively to your area and the world. You can be a force for good if you choose.

This assumes you're not just trolling, but actually, it applies if you are trolling as well.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#77

Post by Retric »

SanityIsRare wrote: post #71
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that idea repulse you? We see it regularly with countries high on the corruption scale. And given what we know about the tragedy of the commons, it makes sense to make money on a global tragedy (CFCs). I (a CFC producer) can make more than the loss everyone takes. Transparency International tries to uncover "shady" countries. You can see the results here: https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_…

Honestly, as a third-world citizen, I just can't fathom why anyone here would give a shit about ozone layer. We are extremely dismissive of those issues here because we care about the future of humanity and Earth a lot less that first-world populace. We have no incentive to protect the Earth so that children of first-worlders can live healthily in 2050 whenever. You fucked us all up with colonialism and whatnot, and…

Impact would be larger on the third world than the first. Increased sunscreen use when outside and lower crop yields.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#78

Post by CompelTechnic »

kissickas wrote: post #27
rdtsc wrote: post #2

> also because alternatives exist, making it hard to imagine what the market for CFC-11 today would be. Well I've heard of someone who was stockpiling and was planning to sell banned Freon. That was years ago. There is a black market for it because equipment that uses it doesn't simply work on newer approved stuff. If I randomly heard about it, chances are there are more insantces of it. And if there is demand someon…

Similarly, I know of someone who was manufacturing a CFC in the US before it was banned. He sold huge stockpiles to South American buyers in advance of the treaty taking effect, making more money then than before simply due to selling such a large volume in such a short time. It doesn't matter if alternatives exist now; someone made that huge purchase back then, they're not going to destroy all of their stock unless…

It is interesting to see how the current dwindling stockpiles of R-12 are being treated. See this ebay listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/R-12-Refrigerant-3-Du-Pont-Freon-Ca...

I'm sure that every person buying cans on ebay is either a certified technician or buying them "solely for the purpose of reselling them to an EPA certified technician".

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#79

Post by y0y »

towndrunk wrote: post #74

What about rockets like SpaceX etc. and volcano's erupting like in Hawaii? What effect do those have on the ozone?

I'm not sure, but they don't produce CFC-11. That is what is being measured, and its effects on the ozone are well-established.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#80

Post by jimmy1 »

towndrunk wrote: post #74

What about rockets like SpaceX etc. and volcano's erupting like in Hawaii? What effect do those have on the ozone?

What does that have to do with a nation violating an international accord to stop producing CFC emissions?
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