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Too Clever by Half

epsilontheory.com

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Re: Too Clever by Half

#111

Post by make3 »

dzdt wrote: post #73
anonytrary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a highdea, but what if coyotes are having a tough time in the wild and they are smart enough to see how we treat dogs, so they are actually doing what wolves did thousands of years ago by slowly, cautiously edging their way into human society in hopes that they can integrate with us? They aren't particularly hostile, they seem to just want to survive. There have been maybe a couple hundred reported c…

No! Thats a major point in the article. Coyotes don't meta-game. Trying to get your great-grand-cubs domesticated would be a meta-game strategy. Coyotes are masters of the scheming mini-game.

does any individual animal other than humans meta game? I'd be surprised if even chimps had long term deceptive overarching strategies

Re: Too Clever by Half

#112

Post by lostcolony »

mcv wrote: post #49
dibujante wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-five, fellow "burned by needing to do real work in university" high schooler :(

Same here. Once I figured out that I didn't really have to do any homework in high school, and wasn't even required to do so in university, I was doomed. I'm now trying to teach my son that just learning to do the work, even if it's boring, is the real skill you need. But he's too focused on winning every mini-game.

Maybe try to figure out how to make the work fun? Or, try and instill a goal less of "getting the grade" and more "attain mastery of the subject"?

I would have been burnt in college, except I got to homeschool the last few years of high school. During that time I took CLEP tests. They were pretty easy for the most part, but they required I actually do the reading and prepare for them. That helped, since in school I just had to pay attention in class, and I'd be good. Then I went to a community college for most of my core classes. That helped too, because there the homeworks either were optional or counted for very little, but I got to see how not doing them hurt my grade. By the time I went to the actual university I wanted to for my major specific stuff, I had developed better study habits, and knew what it took to actually do well. I was helped at that point that, since it was the courses relevant to my major, it was all stuff I was interested in, and actually wanted to attain mastery in.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#113

Post by ItsMe000001 »

salvar wrote: post #91
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you think the dogs had a long term plan?

> not even in the desires of the humans who participated in most of the dog domestication Did you read the full text or just immediately jump to the snarky burn attempt?

The statement that requires proof is the one that dog evolution was caused by desires of any one in particular, especially "hopes to integrate with us" of wolves.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#114

Post by kemonocode »

I'm quite amused to see all that veiled scaremongering when it comes to crypto, even if it has a grain of truth. Yeah, truly the ones who get involved in it can be thought of as either coyotes or raccoons, but I think prohibition and "the war on drugs" only shows how much can something be made desirable by making it unfit for public consumption, and at that point the animal simile breaks down.

Not to mention that, as other commenters have mentioned, coyotes have been rather successful in spite of human encroachment, just like cryptocurrencies grow stronger in the face of looming regulation and sanction. Sure, it might scare off some raccoons and kill some coyotes in the short term, but it's going to be still there. And for all the "coyote institutions" that perished, there are still many more.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#115

Post by 80386 »

DFHippie wrote: post #81
Xuper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thing is feminism is also winning skirmishes but loosing the metagame. Unless having less children but with more disorders born in fractured families is the goal. Something to ponder.

I think you're mixing disparate phenomena to make a political point. There are places where feminism had a strong impact on culture. There are fractured families. There are families with fewer children (whether this is a good or a bad thing is debatable and a matter of perspective and opinion). But the places where the effect of feminism on the equality of opportunity, power, and so forth are most strongly expressed…

> But the places where the effect of feminism on the equality of opportunity, power, and so forth are most strongly expressed tend to be the ones with smaller, more stable families.

Yes, that's what winning skirmishes and losing the metagame looks like. If a meme's host population has a low fertility rate, it'll need to be very strong in recruiting. How strong is this particular meme in recruiting, and what's the delta?

Re: Too Clever by Half

#116

Post by ngvrnd »

dzdt wrote: post #73
anonytrary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a highdea, but what if coyotes are having a tough time in the wild and they are smart enough to see how we treat dogs, so they are actually doing what wolves did thousands of years ago by slowly, cautiously edging their way into human society in hopes that they can integrate with us? They aren't particularly hostile, they seem to just want to survive. There have been maybe a couple hundred reported c…

No! Thats a major point in the article. Coyotes don't meta-game. Trying to get your great-grand-cubs domesticated would be a meta-game strategy. Coyotes are masters of the scheming mini-game.

It may be a major point of the article, but that doesn't mean it's correct, or that the remark about coyotes trying to be domesticated is necessarily wrong. Doesn't mean it's right, either, by the way.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#117

Post by nine_k »

vpontis wrote: post #14

I really enjoyed this article. Summary Coyotes are too clever because they know that people shaking jars full of coins can’t hurt them. Thus the animal control patrol has to get called and when they don’t shoo, the animal control person who loves animals has to shoot the coyote. Coyotes are winning the mini-game of each human interaction, but they are losing the meta-game of what society will do if coyotes aren’t sca…

I'd say that here coyotes don't play too smart, but not smart enough.

Instead of understanding a signal and backing off, they proceed and get shot. They win tactically until they lose strategically.

This is even more sad became coyotes are definitely smart enough to understand symbolic violence and audial signals as a substitute for real fighting, and use this in their interactions within a pack.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#118

Post by phendrenad2 »

I've long had the suspicion that in domesticating animals, we've dumbed them down severely. And I sometimes wonder if humans were smarter before civilization replaced evolution as the driving factor for intelligence.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#119

Post by ballenf »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #51
sunstone wrote: post #37

PayPal was one of the few financial innovators to dodge animal control. They were first and they were fast.

And they were compliant. Their business model was not "you can use this new form of money to mail order cocaine".

I don’t think they really care about the drug trade near as much as large scale tax avoidance.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#120

Post by justherefortart »

Oh no, poor finance jerkoffs got ripped off by their own cleverness.

Nothing says dbag like Alabama man who now lives in Connecticut crying over dead asshole financial firms.

We've had 4 (or more) of these banking/finance ripoffs in my fucking lifetime. Bankers and finance assholes are the scourge of mankind.

I got a degree in Finance just so I could avoid the bullshit these fucking assholes use to rip everyone off. A State Bank as the author is so scared of, like the one in North Dakota, won't run into any of these issues. Because their goal isn't profit at any cost, it's providing banking and investment services.

tl;dr; fuck this guy

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